PP42's Senior Year Training Blog

[rainbowgirl28]

Mitch Fox, yeah I know the clip. You don't think the next session he had him try raising his grip?

And I bet he did to. But like I said, that kid was doing everything perfectly. When you can do it perfectly from the lower grips, then you can move it up. But still in your videos when you went from a low grip to a high grip, it was not perfect when you were holding lower either.

This was the other point I was going to make but I forgot. I agree with VaultPurple!

[master]

Mitch Fox, yeah I know the clip. You don't think the next session he had him try raising his grip?

I'm sure you can see the quality difference between your sand Jagodin's and Mitch's. There is no need to post videos for review until you are satisfied you are doing them as well as Mitch. When you have done that (give yourself a break and start with a lower grip), move your grip up 2 inches max and see if you still have the quality of Mitch. Stay at that grip until you do. When you have done that through several iterations, combine your "quality jump" videos from each of the grips (noting the grip height on the video) and post that. When you do that, I'm sure everyone will be thrilled for you and your progress.

By the way, I'm in awe of how Mitch can do that drill.

- master

[AVC Coach]

PP,

You're getting bent out of shape for nothing! In your original post you said

Let me know what you all think!

I can't speak for the others who have commented, but I only chimed in on your little project because, after watching your vid, I thought you had the physical potential to actually vault well. I still believe that, but I'm losing faith in your mentality. You seem like a very intelligent kid, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to jump high.

Working in the public school system as well as owning my own training facility, I've had the opportunity to coach kids from both ends of the spectrum when it comes to intelligence. There has always been one constant though........the ones who are willing to listen and translate what's being taught to them to actually physically performing it are the ones who have had success. Don't get me wrong. I have had some kids who have been extreme students of the vault and questioned everything. That has made me a better coach in the process since I have to come up with some answers. I've also had some kids that couldn't even spell pole vault, but try whatever I told them, would grip anywhere I told them and would run from where I told them on any pole I put in their hands. These kids still jumped 15+ and 16+.

I encourage my kids and fellow coaches to buy BTB. It's a great resource for any vault enthusiast, but some common sense must be used in order to transfer the information from paper to runway.

Everytime I see a kid jump for the first time, I may see several flaws that need repair. The worst thing I can do for them is point out all of those flaws and expect them to absorb it. I will point out the most important immediate flaw to repair and work on that one thing until it's satisfactory or at least close to satisfactory. Obviously, I have a lot more time and less pressure when it comes to the kids at my high school, but with the kids that travel from hours away for a 2 hour session, sometimes it's a "one-shot" deal. Parents aren't willing to haul their kids to a vault session that takes up their entire day if they don't see obvious, immediate results.

My point is that I think you are trying to work on too many things at one time. It's only hard to jump high, PP, if you're short and fat or extremely hard headed. From the looks of your videos, you're not short and fat. Even though you have the most annoying attitude I've ever seen, I want you to jump high (whatever that means for you) and I think everyone who has posted on your training blog wants the same.

You will never get an elongated, detailed explaination from me (this is probably the longest post I've ever written) when it comes to advice on the vault. I stick to my first things first approach. If I use sarcasm with you or come up with weird analogies, it means that I think you're capable of much more. That's just the way I do things.

Good luck!

[powerplant42]

Thank you! I appreciate it!

I've also created a thread dedicated to the grip height issue. Please let's discuss it there rather than here.

You'll notice that's the only thing I've been stirred up by... I think everything else is great advice!

[KirkB]

PP, I just had another thought about your current predicament ... stimulated by an earlier question someone asked you about passing from 11-6 to 14-4 in an important meet ...

Your curt answer was that "it was a long story"; "it was a mistake"; and "that mistake wouldn't happen again".

Thinking now about your goal to jump 14-0 in your first indoor meet of the year ... sometime next month ... and thinking about you pushing yourself to do the Stiff Pole Jagodins with as high a grip as you possibly can (and arguably then some) ... do you see the pattern?

What is the pattern of these 3 seemingly unrelated things?

And more importantly ... if you detect a common problem with these 3 things, then what's the SOLUTION?

I don't want anyone else to answer this until PP takes a crack at it ... the most benefit is if PP can tie the relationships between these 3 things together himself, and offer a good SOLUTION.

There's another piece to this that I'll add later ... after you answer this, PP.

Kirk

[powerplant42]

What you want me to say is this: "I'm trying to be better than I am and am just too full of myself to stay within my ability level and inch my way up."

That might be partially true, but that's definitely not the whole story. (BTW, I am TOTALLY aware that I have a big ego.)

The 14'4" jumps were very circumstantial... I had won the meet, only had a few jumps left in me, and I really wanted a shot at qualifying for NIN. I didn't care about PR-ing as much as having 3 fresh-ish jumps at the qual height. That's a mentality that I don't have any more.

The grip with the sand jagodins is just a plain disagreement over methodology. That has nothing to do with ego or anything like that... Sorry! Don't try to go any deeper with that one. Gripping high is NOT a Freudian defense mechanism!

I am fully convinced that if I can just stay healthy I should really have little trouble jumping 14' in a few weeks. I'll put up some film soon of some vaulting in the sand... My goal for the end of the week is to be able to jump over my grip height from 1 left (stiff pole of course). It's difficult, but I'm close! I feel SO fast from a 5... If my 3 step is around 12' for a stiff pole, what would my 5 step grip be for a flexible pole?

[rainbowgirl28]

. It's difficult, but I'm close! I feel SO fast from a 5... If my 3 step is around 12' for a stiff pole, what would my 5 step grip be for a flexible pole?

Don't. This line of thinking will just get you hurt. When you get on a pit, start at 3 lefts and work your way back. If you want to skip from 3 lefts to 5 that's fine I guess, but don't raise your grip more than a fist for the first jump. Then base your choice of grip height and pole selection on your penetration, not where you _think_ it should be based on other jumps from other runs.

[powerplant42]

Oh I didn't plan on it, I just want to have an idea.

[rainbowgirl28]

Well think about it this way. The ASOP you talked about is not a grip height you can swing from and finish a vault from. So you might be able to hold higher than that from 5 lefts but you won't be able to vault with that grip height so in the end it doesn't really matter. You need to hold at a height at which you can clear bars with the standards all the way back and land safely in the middle of the pit. That might only be 12' from 5 lefts, you'll just have to see *shrug*

[powerplant42]

The ASOP you talked about is not a grip height you can swing from and finish a vault from.

This is something that has always confused me... since forever. I just never thought to ask.

Shouldn't the swing accelerate the pole even MORE? And the extension EVEN MORE? So why should the grip not be even HIGHER than ASOP in jagodins?

Now, I've experienced this (needing to lower the grip), but it doesn't make sense to me. I haven't thought about it too extensively, I've always just accepted it. Maybe it's because of my technical flaws? Or is this how it's supposed to work...?

[KirkB]

... Shouldn't the swing accelerate the pole even MORE? And the extension EVEN MORE? So why should the grip not be even HIGHER than ASOP in jagodins?

In a jadodin, you're not raising your body above your grip ... so you're using less energy. If you were to try and raise your body above your hands with the run and grip you use for a jagodin, you would most certainly stall out.

In another thread ... as you know ... we're discussing the utility of adding energy after takeoff ... http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=17682&start=0

Don't get the impression from that thread that beginners can add a whole lot of energy from their swing and from their extension. If you think about it ... beginners don't HAVE any extension ... so cross that one out. And altho they may add SOME energy during their swing, they have so many inefficiencies (what I call "leakage"), that there's more energy loss than energy gain.

I'd say that you BEGIN to start effectively utilizing this "extra energy" from your swing and extension when you become an Intermediate, and you begin to perfect it as an Elite. When is that? Hard to say ... it's when you improve your technique enough to stop all (or some of) that leakage!

Kirk

[KirkB]

PP, here's the other piece that I promised ... related to my pondering about your first meet goals and your 14-4 attempt. This was inspired by this thread ... which you wrote ... http://polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=17831. You wrote this on May 25, 2009. I think it also ties into the season goals that 3P0 suggested and showed us.

So this is your advice to beginners ... which I think is good advice ...

Some things to keep in mind:
1. There is no such thing as a magic drill... and there are rarely TRUE silver bullets.
2. Hard work is pointless without intelligence.
3. Patience...
4. The sand pit and high bar are your friends... BEST friends (especially if you're using a stiff pole in the sand pit!)...
5. There is a search button on this site.
6. It takes ~10,000 hours of practice to 'master' a complex task... This includes pole vaulting. Do your best to avoid getting too frustrated.
7. Set reasonable goals.
8. STAY HEALTHY/UNINJURED! Be concerned greatly about preventative safety.
9. Know the rules of the sport.

Now grade yourself on these 9 items ... based on how well you think you're following your own advice ... in comparison to all other junior male vaulters and all other senior male vaulters. Give me letter grades of A, B, C, D, or E for each (bell curve). Give yourself 2 grades ... one for last school year (which you admit was a disaster ... due in no small part to your injuries) and one for this school year (so far).

Kirk