agapit wrote:Tim McMichael wrote:Agapit, I hate to point out the obvious, but if you will notice in the picture you reference, Bubka's bottom hand is ON the pole. I have asked you to show me someone who can plant with their hand OFF the pole as you have repeatedly assured me can be done. Answering my question by showing me a free takeoff does not prove your claim.
An athlete who has always used their bottom arm too much by trying to push it through the pole during the first part of the vault may benefit greatly from trying to feel that they are not using it at all, and they will benefit more by learning how to pull with it just after takeoff. But what an athlete feels they are doing and what they are actually doing are two different things. My challenge remains unanswered. Show me someone who can plant a competition pole with their bottom hand off the pole before it hits the back of the box.
Well Tim,
I do not know if it is beneficial to try to take-off on the competition pole with one arm. It is also hard to plant with one arm. You can slide the pole as Tye does, but this is not the point. You must hold the pole with both arms, but this does not mean you should try to bend it.
I brought this example many times. Imagine jumping on bamboo pole. At no point, as I remember, you would resist it with the left arm. Never the less the bamboo pole would bend. This is very similar to what I am advocating on the fiberglass pole.
Does it help?
Agapit,
I am not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that the one armed plant cannot be done or that it should not be done? And it is not at all difficult to attempt to plant with one arm. Simply let go with the bottom hand before the pole hits the back of the box. I hate to say this, but I think you are still avoiding the question.
The other problem I have is that when I present information that deals with the role of the bottom arm in detail, I feel that it is ignored. You made the initial proposition, and I am challenging you to defend it. At least explain how an object with mass and motion can have no effect on the object it is attached to. If you can do it, I will be the first to applaud you and to change what I teach.
Your reference to the bamboo days is helpful. If the bottom arm plays no part in the fiberglass era, why the much wider grip? No great bamboo valuter ever jumped with their hands more than six inches apart. By the same token, I am unaware of anyone in the fiberglass era who has cleared 5.80 with a grip narrower than 18 inches. In the transition from bamboo and steel to fiberglass there were several vaulters who bent fiberglass poles with narrow grips, but their jumps lacked power, and they had to use very small poles. They also had to bend the pole much less than modern vaulters by necessity. Their poles did not have sail pieces and broke if bent beyond a point that modern poles easily maintain integrity. The explosion of higher vaults that came with the innovation of fiberglass did not occur until sail pieces became essential design elements and wider grips and bigger bends became the norm. Also, as Vaulterboy has already observed, fiberglass made it possible for athletes shorter than 5' 9" to set world records when there was no hope at all for an athlete that size in the bamboo and steel pole days. The wider grip was necessary because of the role the bottom arm plays in getting the pole to bend, and this bend allowed shorter athletes to become world class.
All that being said, I do not advocate an athlete consciously trying to bend the pole with their bottom arm, and I believe that the ability to stiff pole well is of great benefit in learning to vault properly. Anyone who comes to me with a poor run and plant had better be ready for a month or more of stiff pole vaulting.
Let me give you an analogy. A novice golfer who wants to learn to hit the ball a long way must first give up the feel of using their arms at all. When they consciously try to hit the ball with their arms and hands they ruin the speed of the swing and the timing of the stroke, mostly because this causes the hands to move too soon, tenses muscles that must be relaxed and keeps the rest of the body from playing its role in the swing. This is, however, very different from saying that the arms and hands have no part in the golf swing at all, or that it is unnecessary to learn to use them correctly.
The same principle applies to the vault. The usual process of teaching a vaulter to use their bottom arm correctly involves setting up the proper mechanics of the approach and takeoff and getting them to feel they are not using the bottom arm at all. Pushing with the bottom arm will make it impossible to achieve the position necessary for a powerful and effective swing. This is why a world class vaulter may be unaware of using the bottom arm to start the bend of the pole, even though this is one of the things that makes her great. What she feels, however, is not what is actually happening. This is also why being able to perform a great vault does not necessarily make one an expert. In some instances I believe it is better that the athlete be unaware of much of what they are doing correctly. I feel it is my duty as a coach, however, to know both the feel and the reality, even if all I teach is the feel. This is why I am challenging you on this point, Agapit. I realize you are trying to innovate, but I believe both history and physics are against you. Prove me wrong.
