Pole Vault Manifesto

[vault3rb0y]

forget about you calling it a scam.

It has no connection to actually taking off properly

A pole drop while running a cadence and showing impulse at take off has no connect to taking off properly? I guess there are no drills we do to help us take off properly then.

I DID claim before i suspected this was another sham like "Livinthedream2008", and i had no response for that. I give it a 40% chance at this point. What are your estimates?

[altius]

"he refers me to a page i don't have access to or ignores the question."
1. I have tried hard to get you to read 243 but it seems that you are determined to avoid doing that.
2, I have indicated that I have detailed my views on the free take off and pre jump on that page and do not intend to write them again here.
3. i have repeatedly made it clear that Petrov never used the term pre jump and that this was my own interpretation of what he told me and what Bubka confirmed in Jamaica. I actually used the word extrapolation.
4. Yes Efim introduced me to Petrov in Canberra - but and this is just another of those small facts you dont know - one of my athletes Serge Ambrose - who spoke fluent Russian - his name was originally Ambrosovich - actually stayed in my room at the AIS and acted as my interpreter for the period of the games. As I indicated in BTB1 if I remember correctly Vitali drew me diagrams on the back of an envelope.
which gave me orginal ideas and lead to an article published in MAC in 89. Unfortunately I never kept those diagrams.. Also as a national event coach who spoke Russian, Efim had plenty on his plate without being a nursemaid for me.
5. Yes the idea of a pre jump has always seemed ridiculous - that is why I asked Bubka the question i did in Jamaica- as detailed in P243.
6. The book is over 300 pages of which only a couple mention the pre jump.
7. You must be getting pretty desperate if you have called Efim - and I begin to wonder about your motivation in all of this? Indeed it seems so irrational that I intend to let you go on hurling abuse without any response - because clearly nothing I can say will change your mind or stop the abuse - which seems to be escalating. But do try to read chapter 26. Whether you agree with my opinions or not you can hardly claim I am unwilling to put them forward.
8. Let me know when you post your manifesto - then I will know what YOU actually believe. it is always easier to destroy than to construct - so try your hand at the latter for a change.
9. Just watch the blood pressure.

[OH-IOvaulter]

Vault3rb0y with Alan's response plus mine hopefully we can raise your number to say 95% or so. Any time that some one is questioning not just Petrov, but basic vaulting drills like oh I don't know, JUMPING, we can discount it. I can call Jan Johnson right now, does that mean if I do and type on here I am automatically right, no. If I reinterpret Petrov, is it still Petrov, no. Alan, I hope you don't get carpal tunnel, just post your thoughts, ignore the rest, I support you (I'm only one but I know a lot of others on here do too)

[dj]

Good evening,

i think the only reason there has been a continued “agreementâ€

[dj]

Ps

Many of you may wonder why I made those last statements.

Prejudice: to prejudgment: making a decision before becoming aware of the relevant facts.

Prejudice can take many forms but it’s still predice. The key is “whatâ€

[altius]

"allan has continually insisted that the only way to take off is to be a foot “OUTâ€

[volteur]

forget about you calling it a scam.

It has no connection to actually taking off properly

A pole drop while running a cadence and showing impulse at take off has no connect to taking off properly? I guess there are no drills we do to help us take off properly then.

I DID claim before i suspected this was another sham like "Livinthedream2008", and i had no response for that. I give it a 40% chance at this point. What are your estimates?

sorry i should have been clearer. The drill only has a connection to the takeoff in that it emphasises one singular thing. Not to 'lose the pole' is the intention. So now there is a photo being thrown around and you guys don't even know what drill it is? By the way most of those takeoff photos that were posted showed major flaws in techniques and i don't see how it is a collection of 'pre-jump' takeoffs at all. But we can't discuss these things here in this public forum because 'Alan' has already said it all before and can't be bothered now (yet he can be bothered repeatedly spending time avoiding talking about it freely here right now, for the first time in this wonderful thread started by a 'true' expert in agapit.)

By the way i find it really funny that i can name that drill, and clearly nobody knows what Petrov means by not 'losing the pole' and yet nobody asks. This isn't an intellectual debate it's like a kangaroo court (nice for Aussies ey).

I'm not avoiding BTB2 at all i just don't know anyone who has it, simple.

By the way Alan on another note i was hoping you could explain to me how to do a 3 step plant? I'm really trying to work out how this occurs and i just can't seem to conceptualise or visualise it at all. So i looked at Bubka and it's pretty clear from a video what he is actually doing. Are you even aware he doesn;t do a 3 stride plant.

I mean seriously BTB is referred to as a bible yet it has fundamental mistakes like a '3 stride plant'.

Danger - warning - danger!!!!!!!

PS there is no way i can express pole vault better than the manifesto this thread is named after. It is truly a wonderful expression by agapit driven by a lot of experience and a fine intellectual mind. I am happy for that to be my manifesto for now. And i also hope Agapit can reappear and help me fill out my thinking on it.

[vault3rb0y]

You are right i do not know what he means by not "losing the pole". Actually i probably do, its just said a different way, like "finishing your takeoff" can mean different things to different people. Care to explain?

[volteur]

You are right i do not know what he means by not "losing the pole". Actually i probably do, its just said a different way, like "finishing your takeoff" can mean different things to different people. Care to explain?

Sure ' not losing 'connection' to the pole. I guess in the continuous chain view of vault we do not want to lose our 'connection with the pole' at any point in the vault and so the standing version where one holds the pole tip off the ground and learns to bounce the pole on their left hand (to gain a feel for the weight of the pole) and then this running version izzy is doing in the photo.

Note how she is applying force in a similar way to the Bubka vault on p243 and is creating a similar bend. If the pole was actually in the box then it would be bending at that point in the photo as it levered against the back of the box. Because it can't lever because the box is not there izzy is forced or must create an even better connection between herself and the pole than in a normal takeoff. Overemphasis training but not for a pre-jump.

I think it is part of 'finishing the takeoff' as you mentioned. It is one fine part of it. It allows for a more continuous connection from foot support to pole support.

It supports the idea of a free-takeoff over a pre-jump. We must be careful when we extrapolate.

[baggettpv]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj9jSCKF5do

Boy you guys are weird....Pre-jump? Free takeoff? I explain it all. It's all in the way you look at it! I hope this video form my DVD explains itl. I think everyone out there can understand what I am explaining, I teach in junior high vocabulary and concepts. Been professionally teaching for 25 years.

Watch the video then come back.
Alan has never talked about taking off a foot outside (of where? check the video!) just talked about having a free takeoff (I explain a free takeoff in the video!)

Important!!!!
This outside takeoff come from an interpretation of Petrov (into English) in '84. The english version referred to the position (outside) the Russian version was of an action at takeoff. Andjei explained this to me in 87. He said the interpreter was inaccurate and that it is very hard to get correct meanings of concepts when they are interpreted unless there is alot of common knowledge. Very similar to this message board.

Important:
I will stick my nose in here and say that good teachers steal ideas from other good teachers and develop into even better teachers. Poor teachers defend their practices and criticize other teachers for their innovation. Which one are you?

Alan and Rick on the big show
May 31 and June 1st
Century High School
Hillsboro, Or
Be there or be square Coaches are Free!!!

[dj]

hello

[quote]"allan has continually insisted that the only way to take off is to be a foot “OUTâ€

[volteur]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj9jSCKF5do

Poor teachers defend their practices and criticize other teachers for their innovation. Which one are you?

I thought my intentions were pretty clear in that i am honestly enquiring and freely stating my opinion on certain things.

Rick that is a great way to explain it all. I like the way you show how the body extends as you move from foot support to pole support.

Your sentences

"so AS my foot leaves the ground, then the pole touches" and "i want to be in contact with the box, AS my foot is leaving the ground"

show very clearly the timing involved from foot support to pole support and the 'gap' of time between.

cheers