High School athletes vaulting in open college meets?

[Matthew Scheffler]

I've heard a lot of different things said from coaches of all levels about this, but I was wondering if anyone knows for Certain what the rules are for high school pole vaulters jumping either unattached, or for a club, at open college meets? I have some athletes in my club who don't have indoor track at their schools, so I was wondering if they are allowed to do this? Also, for the ones that do have a high school indoor team, are they allowed to compete unnattached or for a club?

Also, if anyone has a link to the specific rules stating whether or not this can be done that would be appreciated.

Thanks:)

[kev44000]

in oklahoma a high school kid cannot jump at a college meet with college atheletes it would make him ineligible for future high school events you can vault at a college meet when there is a high school meet also going on like at arkanasa u or oklahoma u i think the rules maybe are different in other states it is up to your high school track association i would contact your high school governing body to find out in your state

[slowest5.50]

I saw this on trackshark.com
http://www.trackshark.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7247

I hope I'm allowed to copy it....

Taken from:
wildcat88
baby shark

Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Florida
Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:36 am Post subject:

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OK this is a mess.

Vince Anderson just sent this to me from his compliance officer. In fact the rule was changed to what I understood and then it has been reversed within the last few weeks. Her is the rule as it stands currently.

Interpretation:

NCAA Division I institutions should note that pursuant to NCAA Division I Bylaw 13.11.1.2, an institution's varsity intercollegiate athletics team may compete against a two-year college team, but may not compete against a high school or preparatory school team. Additionally, an institution’s varsity intercollegiate athletics team may not participate in a contest against an outside team (e.g., nonscholastic team) that includes high school prospective student-athletes, except for permissible contests while on a foreign tour, exempted contests against a foreign team in the United States and the United States national team. This legislation addresses the membership's concern regarding prospective student-athletes competing against student-athletes as a means of evaluating whether the prospective student-athletes should be recruited.

It is important to note that at its April 17, 2007, meeting, the NCAA Division I Management Council modified a December 12, 2006, official interpretation regarding competition against prospective student-athletes in individual sports. That interpretation, which has now been archived, stated that in individual sports, it was impermissible for an institution’s varsity team members to compete directly (e.g., in the same heat, flight, pairing) against high school prospective student-athletes who are representing an outside team. Instead, the Management Council issued an official interpretation dated April 17, 2007, stating that in individual sports, it is permissible for an institution's varsity team and an outside team that includes prospective student-athletes to participate in the same open event, provided the event either involves no team scoring or the event uses team scoring such that the institution's varsity team and the outside team are in separate scoring categories. Therefore, under these conditions, it would be permissible in individual sports for members of an institution's varsity team to compete directly (e.g., in the same heat, flight, pairing) against high school prospective student-athletes who are representing an outside team.

Bylaw 13.11.1.2 does not prevent members of an institution's varsity intercollegiate athletics team from competing in established national championship events (including junior national championships) or in Olympic, Pan American, World Championships, World Cup or World University Games qualifying competition against an outside team that includes high school prospective student-athletes. Further, in accordance with Bylaw 16.8.1.3, institutions may provide student-athletes actual and necessary expenses to participate in these activities.

Effective August 1, 2007, Bylaw 16.8.1.3 will permit institutions to provide actual and necessary expenses to student-athletes to participate in the following activities:

1. Established national championship events (including junior national championships);

2. Specific competition (e.g., Olympic Trials) from which participants may directly qualify for the Olympic Games, Pan American Games, World Championships, World Cup and World University Games; and

3. One national team tryout competition event from which participants are selected for the national team that will participate in the Olympic Games, Pan American Games, World Championships, World Cup or World University Games although national team participants may be selected from multiple tryout events for a particular listed competitive event, an institution may provide expenses for only one such tryout event for each of the listed competitive events.

Therefore, effective August 1, 2007, members of an institution's varsity intercollegiate athletics team would be permitted to compete against an outside team that includes high school prospective student-athletes in any of these specified activities.

[References: Bylaws 13.11.1.2 (competition against prospective student-athletes), 16.8.1.3 (other competition) and 17.02.8.1 (exempted events); official interpretations: (4/17/2007, Item Ref. 15-b) and (12/12/06, Item Ref. 9) which has been archived; and a staff interpretation (2/7/2007, Item Ref. 1).]

[rainbowgirl28]

Yeah I think it is still OK from the NCAA standpoint, but whether or not you would be OK from your high school association's standpoint varies by state.

Most states do not care what you do if it does not involve school coaches, equipment, facilities, or uniforms, but some states are ridiculously controlling.

[polevault14]

For New York:

You need to view your High School Sections Track and Field website, I.E. Section 6, the handbook is usually published and the rules regarding competition are included or have one of your athletes ask their coach or Athletic Director for a copy of the handbook. All Coaches are required to have a copy of the Sections rule in addition to the NYHSFT&F Another resources is to contact your NYS BOCES Athletics Section Office to receive a copy of the rules.

Our group from Section 5 & 6 traveled the East Coast to some type of meet almost ever weekend. The Armory in New York City, (see website) RIT, Robert Weslyan, Univeristy of Syracuse on and Dartmouth were some of our favorites. In addition we would go to University of York, Canada on Friday nights and Saturdays


I sure miss those years....so now I officiate the event! and that is the best advice regarding New York rules...

[mjaubbs40]

Matt,
If the meet is a true open meet--it's probably sanctioned by USATF and those rules would apply. I haven't been able to find any rules against anyone competing in an open meet and we often travel to NYS open meets with HS & college vaulters. I'm not sure about a HS kid competing against collegiate vaulters as an unattached athlete in a college meet. That sounds like taboo whether they have a HS team or not.
Like previously suggested by polevault14, I think that sectional coordinators or meet management need to be consulted--at the very least just to register an athlete for the meet, as well as see if it's ok.
Let me know what you find out.
Mike
polevault14--who's father are you? I think we may have met at Rick's place once. Hope to see you officiate a section 5 or 6 meet this winter.

[rainbowgirl28]

I'm not sure about a HS kid competing against collegiate vaulters as an unattached athlete in a college meet. That sounds like taboo whether they have a HS team or not.

It's pretty common in parts of the country that do not have a high school indoor track season.

[Matthew Scheffler]

Thank you for all the info and rules regarding participation and eligibility issues. From all that I've read, it appears as though it doesn't really matter as long as the high school athlete is not representing their own school, and are entering the open meet on their own.

Thanks again,

Matthew Scheffler

[mjaubbs40]

From: http://www.nysphsaa.org/
Click on rules & regs on left menu, then NYSPHSAA ByLaws and Eligibility Standards

NYSPHSAA, Inc.
BYLAWS and ELIGIBILITY STANDARDS
7. COLLEGE: A student is no longer eligible to represent the school in that
sport in that season if the student participates in practice or competition with
or against any college athletic squad during that season.

[rainbowgirl28]

From: http://www.nysphsaa.org/
Click on rules & regs on left menu, then NYSPHSAA ByLaws and Eligibility Standards

NYSPHSAA, Inc.
BYLAWS and ELIGIBILITY STANDARDS
7. COLLEGE: A student is no longer eligible to represent the school in that
sport in that season if the student participates in practice or competition with
or against any college athletic squad during that season.

That is pretty lame, though in all fairness there are a ton of indoor meets for high schoolers in New York, it seems somewhat unnecessary for most kids to need to jump in college meets.

[Ethan]

Does anybody know the rules for indiana on this subject

[nitro]

as long as it is not a college scoring meet or as long as ur not jumping for ur school your fine