"The Fiberglass Era" - Circa 1964

[master]

Hey souleman, for an 'old guy' , you've got a great memory! Either that or you took copious notes when you were a kid.

- master

[dj]

good morning

spring 1965.. freshman in college

browning skypole.. 16' 145 HD

2 months.. march to april.. from 12-3 swedish steel.... to 14-6 browning skypole.

broke pole attempting 15'..

in 2 weeks i got a "red" thermoflex.. cleared 14-6.. broke the pole attempting 15'..

coaches wouldn't buy me anymore poles.. so i became a long jumper, hurdler, sprinter..

didn't pole vault again (other than try and get a couple of points in our conference meet) until a decathlon in 1970..

the development of poles has been just as responsible for the technique we see today (even bubka's technique. which most of the time was the "natural" way to vault) as our coaching.. even different styles of poles of today are still effecting the vault.

earl bells knee drop was partially from the pole and the relationship of the grip, stiffens and design.

bubka could perform the "model" partially because he was fast enough to grip near the top of a 5 meter pole designed by george moore.

application of force and physics is the way we can vault our best and the action/reaction of the pole has to be considered.

ron morris, fred hanson, john pennel, dave tork, casey carrigan.. so many more that i need to get out my file of who and what pole they used...etc..etc.. they were our test pilots..

their "model" was.. run as fast as you can (controlled) plant as high as you can.. keep your takeoff "at" or outside vertical.. swing as fast as you can.. while staying behind the cord of the pole... try to swing your body as high above your top grip as possible..

sorry to bring up "model" here.. but tom telez and guy kochel (to name only two americans, there were fiberglass vaulters and coaches before them) had "The Model" at least as early as 1974.. and it was no different in concept than the 6.40 bubka Model.. and this in NOT in disrespect for petrov.. he improved the model and described it in a way (Natural Vault.. relaxed extended arms, free takeoff, which is what guy kochel was saying when he said "you will feel like you have taken off to far out, 3/4" before the pole tip hits the back of the box") that should be listened to and produced the only 20' vaulter to date.

to me this sounds like "the model" one that we, USA, has been working toward for a long time.. and that pacer III's let us start to obtain because of the design..

sorry

off topic.. sort off

dj

[souleman]

DJ.....not far enough off topic to be a concern .....for sure. Info and "history" like your entry is what makes threads like this so much fun to read. Later...Mike

[decanuck]

So I occasionally still vault on some ancient poles, and I'm curious to know how old they are.

1550 black cat-a-pole
1555 black cat
1650 black cat
15' Gill Big Red (which literally has "Stiff!" etched on the pole)

After these the next-oldest poles in the collection seem to be a set of Pacer IIIs. Does anyone know when they stopped making all these old things? They are all cut way down from the bottom, BTW, in case anyone thought they lasted this long in one piece.

[rainbowgirl28]

So I occasionally still vault on some ancient poles, and I'm curious to know how old they are.

1550 black cat-a-pole
1555 black cat
1650 black cat
15' Gill Big Red (which literally has "Stiff!" etched on the pole)

After these the next-oldest poles in the collection seem to be a set of Pacer IIIs. Does anyone know when they stopped making all these old things? They are all cut way down from the bottom, BTW, in case anyone thought they lasted this long in one piece.

They made Pacer IIIs into the 80s. You can figure out the date if you look at the engravings in the handle.

[altius]

"sorry to bring up "model" here.. but tom telez and guy kochel (to name only two americans, there were fiberglass vaulters and coaches before them) had "The Model" at least as early as 1974.. and it was no different in concept than the 6.40 bubka Model.. and this in NOT in disrespect for petrov.. he improved the model and described it in a way (Natural Vault.. relaxed extended arms, free takeoff, which is what guy kochel was saying when he said "you will feel like you have taken off to far out, 3/4" before the pole tip hits the back of the box") that should be listened to and produced the only 20' vaulter to date.

to me this sounds like "the model" one that we, USA, has been working toward for a long time.. and that pacer III's let us start to obtain because of the design.. "

dj - please note that I am not contradicting you because I was not in a position to watch US vaulters in that period - although I did see Seagren jump in Munich - and I have never had a chance to discuss these ideas with the coaches you mention, However as a former - very lightweight - academic, I know that any statements one makes must be substantiated with facts if they are to mean anything. I have already asked folk to put up film of the athletes of that period but unfortunately there have been no takers to date. Now I would like to see any written material that is available that confirms that the coaches you mention were in fact employing the Petrov model before Petrov, as well as film of athletes jumping like Bubka before Bubka. I AM NOT SAYING IT DID NOT HAPPEN - I would just like evidence that goes beyond anecdotal reports.

One reason for my concern is that drawings I have -taken from film of Fred Hansen - suggest that he certainly was not employing a technical model that remotely resembled the Petrov/Bubka model

I know Petrov studied US methods but I am not sure who he spoke to or which vaulters he specifically studied -I would appreciate that information through PVP as I would prefer not to pester Vitali for it..

[gtc]

Went to 2 Guy Kochel Arkansas State University Pole Vault Camps. 1978 and 1979 And not once! Did we talk about a free takeoff!

[swtvault]

Mike Tully definetely had elements of the 640 model as early as 1978. Watch some of the videos of him on Don Hoods old video. In my mind, Tully was one of the best technicians ever.

[altius]

Please - can someone post video of Tully?????

[rainbowgirl28]

Please - can someone post video of Tully?????

It is very difficult to get non-digital video online. Most people here do not have the resources to do so.

[altius]

Understand -i cant get ANYTHING on line!!! But i hope someone can make the effort, because until we see film of the athletes who have been mentioned it will be very difficult to accept that they jumped like Bubka or applied any of the principles of the Petrov model. Note again - I am not saying they didnt do so - but I would like to see the evidence that they did!

[master]

Within reason, I offer to make those conversions and post the results. If someone has a video (VHS) tape of a jump of any of these jumpers, contact me and maybe we can work something out. How about we try this out with one video and make sure I can do what is desired. If someone has video of Mike Tully and would volunteer to loan it so I can make a digital file from it, please PM me.

- master