My video... flagging out and posting with bottom arm

[vault3rb0y]

If the pole bend is out in front the whole time it is going to make things harder to get fully inverted. You will block your legs and hips from getting in line with the pole, and probably flag out. Just think about moving that top hand to the standard when you start your swing.

[AVC Coach]

Just think about moving that top hand to the standard when you start your swing.

"Bottom hand"!

[sooch90]

Hey man, you jump looks pretty similar to what mine was in decemberish.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5847921506

.....

Anyway, good luck!

Hey man THANK you!!! I typed out in the second post almost the same thing that i thought would help me... i wrote this:

i believe what i'm going to do is get on a smaller pole and start doing rockbacks from 3 lefts... i can do GOOD rockbacks and get totally vertical but when that pole starts to bend, then the problems arise. So i'm going to get on a smaller pole at three steps, do rockbacks and gradually move up the pole until it starts bending and i'll just focus on doing rockbacks and keeping my head tucked in, focus on swinging all the way through and getting vertical.

were you bending the pole during the drills that you were doing?

Also, this is for everyone... kinda a newbie question... when i vault my pole never rotates out to the side, its always flexed straight in front of my. Should i worry about rotating the pole out to the side when it flexes?

Haha, this is very interesting. I think I was almost in the same exact position as you currently are a little less than 6 months ago haha. I asked the same exact question on these forums back then as well. Basically, I found it did not matter. Eventually the pole started turning to the left for me automatically. You don't purposely shift the bend to the left if that's what you're asking. The pole automatically shifts to the left. One person told me it was because once you bend it enough, the bend has no where to go so it shifts left. I don't know if this is true, and it certainly doesn't mean you should try to "get more bend" by over gripping or something. Just dont worry about it.

About the drill, yes it eventually starts to bend. The drill I used was called a "fly away". What you do is you use a small grip with a small pole, and try to vault OUT. This may sound contradictory to what you're trying to do, partially because I'm probably not explaining it very well, but I'll try to do my best. What I did was grab a light pull, which I knew I would blow through, and I would swing and then straighten out parrallel to the ground. You're familiar with pop-ups right? Or rock backs? It's similar except, you want to blow through the pole, and allow the recoil to carry you out.

It may be best if I get a video of this and showed you because I'm not sure if anything I'm saying exactly makes much sense. The most important part of this drill, or if you're doing a drill similar to this, is to have a high plant, but don't force the bottom hand in to the pole. Then just keep raising your grip, and moving your steps back, and moving up poles.


I also at the time could easily swing to inversion when doing "rock back drills". But any time I started bending the pole, it messed me up. However, my problem was I didn't connect the drill to the actual jump. Meaning when I started jumping from further back, I would put more pressure with the bottom arm. So I just needed to remember that it's the same. When I moved move back, I just needed to remind myself I didn't have to put any more pressure with my bottom arm than I did when I did pop-ups. Just get the arms HIGH at plant.


Also, this drill requires that you do NOT put the elbow on the inner side of the pole. This will completely prevent you transitioning the drill to the actual jump because when you take a real jump, you don't try to force the elbow on the inside of the pole. When you plant during these drills, plant like you would plant for a full run, except don't force the bottom arm.


At this point I'm rambling, and I tend to ramble, so I apologize. I didn't explain the drill very well, so I'll try to get some video by next tuesday or wednesday.

good luck!

*edit* Oh just in case you wanted to know, I used a 12' 120lb pole, holding about a foot down for these drills. I would go from about 3 lefts for this drill, and the pole would shoot me out. I don't know if it really matters, I might be overemphasizing that I blew through and was shot outwards by the pole instead of upwards. I think what's most important is that you plant high and don't put as much pressure with the bottom arm.

Oh and I was 130-135lb 5' 8.5".


EDIT*** Again, I'm editing this post. I want to make sure I don't give you any wrong information that might be more detrimental to your jump than helpful. I gotta emphasize that I'm still very much in the learning phase of pole vaulting, and have only my experience to give you as advice. However, I think it's important for you to be careful when reading my advice. People learn pole vaulting in different ways, and my way of learning pole vaulting such as putting no pressure with the bottom arm, may not be your way or the best way to learn to improve your jump. A couple months from now, I may find "oh! You do have to put pressure with the bottom arm! I'm stupid!" I don't know. I'm just telling you what fixed my specific problem that I had with my jump at the time, hoping that you will be able to soak in some of my experience to improve your jump.

Here maybe it's best you also read this thread
http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=10562

once agian good luck!

[BadMotherVaulter]

Sooch thank you for the advice... i'm keeping all that in mind for my next practice. I'm still VERY sore from my last practice and i need to take it easy for a day or two. You are very helpful.

And as for rotating my pole, i'll give it a shot, and let ya'll know the outcome.

[powerplant42]

On the topic of outward pole bend... I'm kind of into physics, so I'm going to give this a shot. I guess this is more biomechanics, but whatever:
Okay, so you're vaulting. Notice, how if you're really experienced and get a really nice load in the pole, it sort of bends toward your take-off side? Coincidence? Nah, couldn't be... Well, let's analyze the 'C' position occurring directly after take-off. Why does this occurr? Because the vaulter pre-stretches their muscles into that shape and allows the pole to kick back theire hands, arms, shoulders, etc. Now, let's apply that same idea to outward bend; your bottom arm should be more forward than your top arm, and consequently is being pushed back harder. Now since our bottom arm is pushed back to one side of our body, the pole follows (if you hold on ).
In conclusion, I believe that to get that outward bend, you first need an ACTIVE bend, where the vaulter and pole work together, not against one another, and where the vaulter is swinging hard (loading the pole actively).

That's just an educated guess. If anyone has any other thoughts, they'd be great to read!

(P.S.) That is absolutely NOT a noob question. I had to think about it a long time, and I'm still just guessing. It may have something to do with drive knees or trail legs, but I don't know. I've only been vaulting for one season, but I've really paid attention to what educated vault coaches have to say. I've never heard anyone say anything about that. I'm interested in what other vaulters have to say!
Good luck again!

[vault3rb0y]

On the topic of outward pole bend... I'm kind of into physics, so I'm going to give this a shot. I guess this is more biomechanics, but whatever:
Okay, so you're vaulting. Notice, how if you're really experienced and get a really nice load in the pole, it sort of bends toward your take-off side? Coincidence? Nah, couldn't be... Well, let's analyze the 'C' position occurring directly after take-off. Why does this occurr? Because the vaulter pre-stretches their muscles into that shape and allows the pole to kick back theire hands, arms, shoulders, etc. Now, let's apply that same idea to outward bend; your bottom arm should be more forward than your top arm, and consequently is being pushed back harder. Now since our bottom arm is pushed back to one side of our body, the pole follows (if you hold on ).
In conclusion, I believe that to get that outward bend, you first need an ACTIVE bend, where the vaulter and pole work together, not against one another, and where the vaulter is swinging hard (loading the pole actively).

That's just an educated guess. If anyone has any other thoughts, they'd be great to read!

(P.S.) That is absolutely NOT a noob question. I had to think about it a long time, and I'm still just guessing. It may have something to do with drive knees or trail legs, but I don't know. I've only been vaulting for one season, but I've really paid attention to what educated vault coaches have to say. I've never heard anyone say anything about that. I'm interested in what other vaulters have to say!
Good luck again!

well if you want to hear what this vaulter has to say about the outward bend, its as simple as this. You control the pole, the pole doesnt control you. I see exactly what you are saying about the pole pushing your hands backwards and subsequently over your head, but i view it more as YOU yourself using your strength to control the pole AND keep your hands over your head at the same time. If your hands are high over your head, naturally there will be some left-right separation between your hands. The pole with then obviously be bent to the side of your bottom hand. I think vaulters, myself included, occasionally have a problem moving the pole bend outward because we get our hands into a position and FIGHT the pole, not wanting to move our hands. This happens to me sometimes when i try to move up poles, because i try to control the pole TOO much, when you really just need to hit the positions with every jump. I think that involves active hands that dont just get over your head and say there, they still have to move as you swing to be most efficient.

I know EXACTLY where you are coming from with the whole physics/biomechanics look at things, because im interested in the same kind of thing when it comes to the vault .

[BadMotherVaulter]

Thanks everyone!!!

I went to practice last night and got some drills in... did a lot of runs from 3 lefts on a smaller pole and concentrated on my swing, rocking back, and getting vertical... and SUPRISE it really helped! I started doing rockbacks from a low grip, straightpoling, then moving my grip farther up the pole. As it started to bend, i noticed myself wanting to block with my bottom arm, and i concentrated on keeping it mush after my plant. I ended up getting all the way to the cap on the pole and ACTUALLY VAULTING upwards.

But then i got too sore to keep vaulting I'm an old mand now haha. My flexor (i think thats what its called, the muscle at the top of my left quad) was KILLING me.

I wish i would have gotten video of it, but my next practice is on sunday so we'll try that again.

[vault3rb0y]

Well im not gonna attempt to get into what you might be doing wrong or right, congrats on getting inverted well!! And your hip flexor is hurting? GOOD! that means you are using it . THe first time i started using my hip flexor and quad like i should last season, it wasnt stretched properly, nor was the rest of my swing leg, and i ended up pulling my quad .

[powerplant42]

Haha, it just ocurred to me that it might actually be the flexing in of the bottom arm that might make the pole go outwards...

If your flexor is hurting, that IS good, but bad because it hurts. It usually means that you're running correctly with high knees.

If it's hurting more on the inside of your hip, (it might not be, but this will probably happen eventually too...) then you've got illiopsoas tendonitis. Just stretch it out by putting your legs over the end of a bed with your hips over the side. Anyways, congratulations! Upward is always good.
Any other new problems though?

[BadMotherVaulter]

Not really any new problems, just need to get consistent with my getting vertical.

It was about 50/50 on my jumps... but it did help a lot. I just really have to focus on the rockback movement. I had one AWESOME jump on a 12' pole that i WISH i had on video.

I'm gona practice again this sunday and post videos from it.

Thanks for the kind words!!!

[powerplant42]

Make sure you don't rockback too early. That can STINK, let me tell you. (Personal experience!)

[vault3rb0y]

This might sound like a stupid question, but do you practice with a coach every time you jump? If you dont have someone there, especially during this phase of your jumping, its really easy to form bad habits that get harder and harder to break as you jump more. If you have a coach he/she can keep you away from those types of things.