Athletic Suppliments, yay or nay?

[jumpbackin]

Vault3r,,

I got to thinking this weekend, it would be really cool if you got your Dad on here to talk about some of these issues. Things like soy protein, fish oil and vegetarianism pertaining to athletic training. If he's not into the idea, that's ok, but it would be really great to hear from a university professor about these topics.

[vault3rb0y]

I'll definitely ask him when he gets back from washington and after Nike. Thats the next time he will be on his home computer. I dont think he would have a problem answering some questions, at least the ones he's educated in. He studied exercise physiology as a graduate at Penn State, and moved on to teach nutrition and then later nutrition policy at Cornell University. So he might have some insight that us non-nutritionists might have, but i know he hasnt done studies about how vegetarianism, fish oil, etc effect athletic training. But he might be able to find us the article or studies that have. I will give him a call and see what he thinks. I know he will be willing to help, but i think he can give a more wide nutritional standpoint than get into specifics.

[tikrapt]

i took creatine from september this year to december when indoor season started. i think it worked. i got a lot stronger very fast. during the season i took glutamine... which helps your muscles recover and that worked good. i also to amino acid pills all year which help rebuild muscle and is basically protein without the calories and crap. basically all you need to do is eat a good diet and if you want throw in some multivitamins to make sure you are getting everything you need. if you find you arent getting enough recovery fast enough or big enough fast enough then go to the other stuff.

[vault3rb0y]

basically all you need to do is eat a good diet and if you want throw in some multivitamins to make sure you are getting everything you need.

Bingo.

if you find you arent getting enough recovery fast enough or big enough fast enough then go to the other stuff.

I just dont like that, im not trying to bash you because i absolutely see what you are trying to say, but all too often in HS, and although im not there yet, im sure college, people start out with something like creatine. Ok, maybe wont kill you, but it is still something you should get from food instead. Then when they arent recovering faster or getting big enough, they go to the next step. Lets say NO Xplode or the harder "protien" powders. Next maybe they try some small inneficient hormones, then eventually HGH. Im not saying thats everyone, but like with most drugs, you love the effects and want more and more as you keep going. Thats the only real reason i think you should stay away from supplements that speed up recovery time and make you bigger without food. Creatine is borderline, and i believe for many athletes it could be a transition supplement. Alone, its safe and effective. But i dont believe the mentality it creates for many users is healthy- the mentality that the way to get bigger and faster is to take harder supplements. This may only be 10% of people who take creatine, but i still think thats too much.

[jumpbackin]

I'll definitely ask him when he gets back from washington and after Nike. Thats the next time he will be on his home computer. I dont think he would have a problem answering some questions, at least the ones he's educated in. He studied exercise physiology as a graduate at Penn State, and moved on to teach nutrition and then later nutrition policy at Cornell University. So he might have some insight that us non-nutritionists might have, but i know he hasnt done studies about how vegetarianism, fish oil, etc effect athletic training. But he might be able to find us the article or studies that have. I will give him a call and see what he thinks. I know he will be willing to help, but i think he can give a more wide nutritional standpoint than get into specifics.

That sounds good. I don't think it's necessary that he researched these topics. He's immerced in an environment where these issues are discussed daily. I'm sure he can bring some good insight.

[carbonvaulter5]

I know a lot of guys that use creatine for football and some of the guys use it in my poel vault club, it gives you a big boost of energy and I thought it helped out in the jumping. But I wouldn't use it, it can affect you in the long run

[vault3rb0y]

here is the direct email my dad sent to me with links to different subjects. He told me that basically, the new nutrition information he learns these days comes from these websites. Just out each topic if you are interested, and hopefully he has all the topics you are interested in those websites.

>Hi Jas - here are some reviews and position statements on sports
>nutrition and related substances. These are produced by scientific
>or professional organizations that review the studies from time to
>time and draw overall conclusions based on all the available
>evidence. This is different from picking out a handful of studies
>that support one side of an issue or another, which is all too
>common. So the conclusions in these statements may differ from what
>your friends have seen elsewhere. As usual, "know your source."
>Hope this helps. dad
>
>Sports nutrition
>http://www.acsm-msse.org/pt/pt-core/template-journal/msse/media/1200.pdf
>
>
>Fluid replacement
>http://www.acsm-msse.org/pt/pt-core/template-journal/msse/media/0207.pdf
>
>
>Anabolic steroids
>http://www.acsm-msse.org/pt/pt-core/template-journal/msse/media/0587.pdf
>http://www.acsm.org/Content/ContentFolders/Publications/PositionStands/Position_Statement__Senate_Hearing_on_the_Abuse_of_Anabolic_Steroids_and_Their_Precursors_by_Adolesc.htm
>
>Dietary supplements
>http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;115/4/1103
>http://www.ncaa.org/sports_sciences/education/nutritional_supplements.html

[theczar]

cool...thanks for the websites... alot of good info there!

[apsully]

If any of you are interested in creatine but are being scared away from it by people telling you it WILL GIVE YOU KIDNEY PROBLEMS....dont be.

If you stick to what the packaging says as far as dosing and cycling, and dont forget having AT LEAST 64 ounces of water a day (should be drinkin that much anyway), you'll be fine.

Creatine Monohydrate is a wonderful supplement and is one of the most popular (and most studied) supplements in the bodybuilding world. It's a great tool to COMBINE with a healthy diet and exercise program, but ONLY if combined with a healthy diet and exercise program.

If you're still thinking that its too risky, there's another option for you. In recent years, the last 5 or so, there have been 2 new types of creatine developed. One is called CEE, or creatine ethyl ester. The other is called Krealkalyn.

I personally haven't tried Krealkalyn, and probably won't, but I am currently cycling CEE. It's an amazing supplement and has given me great results. I've boosted my max bench from about 240 to 280 in the last month and a half.

Also, unlike creatine monohydrate, you don't have to consistently take CEE. It is used strictly as a pre-workout drink. If you dont workout that day, you dont need to take it. What allows this is having the ethyl molecule bonded to the creatine. I forget the science of it, but for some reason, the ethyl makes the whole molecule more lypophillic. This allows the molecule to be much more permeable (able to pass through cell membranes easier). This is why you can take it pre-workout.

Another thing about CEE is that it doesn't casue the infamous "water bloat". Because there is no need to load and consistently consumer it day in and day out, it doesn't cause any significant water retention. There also haven't been ANY studies relating it to increased cramping or risk of muscle pulls/tears.

Beyond creatine, the only supplements I would reccomend for atheletes like ourselves are your basics (whey protein, aminos, glutamine, fish oils, and glucosamine chondritin- joint juice) as well as one other: arginine/nitric oxide.

Nitric Oxide, or NO, is an amazing chemical. The actual supplement itself is most always taken in teh form of AAKG, of Arginie Alpha-Ketogluterate. This chemical causes an increase in the amount of NO in your blood stream. One of the primary effects of NO is to dilate your blood vessels by relaxing the muscles on the inner walls of said vessels. This allows, obviously, greater blood flow.

The benefits of this extra bloodflow consist: quicker recovery (lactic acid gets flushed out faster), nutrients get to and from muscles much faster, increased endurance, increased vascularity, and perhaps the best of all, a HUGE pump.

Basically, NO is the same priniciple as viagra, except it doesnt target your uhhh..umm....you get the picture.

There haven't been any studies directly linking NO supplements to health problems either. This is assuming the person takign it was getting enough water. 64 ounces is absolute minimum with this one too!

I have been stacking the previously mentioned CEE with an NO supplement and my results have been great. At the begginning of the summer i had hit a plateau. Since then, when i started this stack, I've gained about 8 or 9 lbs of lean muscle which, for me, is great.


Anyways, I hope this helps some of you to lose the fear of even trying supplementation. As long as you stay away from testosterone boosters, HGH (human growth hormone), and anything else that promises to give you "the ultimate anabolic edge", you should be perfectly fine...as long as you COMBINE it with a healthy diet and exercise program....and @$$loads of water too!

[apsully]

woah, i just reread my post.
im terribly sorry for all the spelling and grammatical errors, i was typing very fast as this is a subject i feel very strongly about.

i also forgot to mention one thing. i dont remember who else said this same thing, but during season...there's no need for anything besides the basics.

the basics being, as i mentioned earlier: whey protein, aminos, multi v's, glutamine, fish oils, and glucosamine chondritin.

i use the other supplements (NO and CEE) strictly as off-season training aids. i do this because one, during season, your body is getting the crap beaten out of it and doesnt need the extra stress of unnaturally high levels of select chemicals....and 2, because in most leagues/divisions they are considered performance enhancers and are illegal. this is especially true if you are an NCAA athelte, which i now am.

[VTechVaulter]

creatine is not illegal in the ncaa

i agree with most of you post though. i like the idea of creatine a lot in the fall when your training load is heavier too, body needs a little extra recovery. in the season, your schedule should be lighter anyway

another couple good recommendations

1. DONT EVER DO LOAD CYCLES. no need

2. Take only about half the recommended amount, but drink the full amount of water. Anything your body cant absorb, you flush down the toilet, literally. so save yourself the money. Plus youll still find you get the same amount of benefit. those companies overload you to make sure you get the max. if your a really big guy, over 85kg, maybe take 3/4 of a serving

3. Split when you take it. if you drink it all at once, again your body doesn't know what to do with it all. drink some in the morning, and then again after your workout. 1/4 servings at a time


From what ive been told the best products are

Trac
Evolve
Cell tech

or if your less excitable, just good old creatine monohydrate mixed with grape juice. sugars are a necessary transport agent.

[apsully]

I don't mean to argue with vtech, but it's quite debatable as to whether or not you should load with creatine monohydrate.

Most people do actually complete a oen week loading phase (20 grams a day. 5g 4x per day). BUT even if you do pee most of that out, and I'm not saying you do, it's not a big deal, because you can find straight creatine mono very cheap. I bought a bottle for 24$ and I used it for about 1 month. I still have OVER HALF the bottle left and that was after doing a loading phase as well as keeping up the 10 grams per day maintenance.

Also, from experience I can tell you that what vtech said about using half the dose, no loading cycle and still getting the same benefit... it's true. HOWEVER, doing it that way causes you to wait about 2 weeks, or it did for me at least, to see significant results.

Last thing I promise. Also as vtech said, take ANY and EVERY creatine supplement with grape juice. There's a chemical in grape seed that acts as a pretty potent enzyme and the juice itself contains, as vtech said, a LOT of natural sugar, which creatine needs for transport.