Bottom arm and inverting

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master
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Unread postby master » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:16 am

vault3rb0y wrote:...while izi seems to let her chest drive forward and put (close to) no pressure with her bottom hand. Why the difference?

You guys are making this ol' man work hard to make my point. Anyway, below are similar take off sequences of Isi's 476cm and 480cm jumps. I contend she does a pretty respectable job holding her position. Obviously I would not expect her to be able to resist as much as Bubka did.

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Unread postby scsuvaulter » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:24 am

I think we all believe the same basic concept but are not conveying it well... to point this out:

Which is better...?

1) Your bottom hand in your face at take off (applying NO pressure)...
2) Your bottom hand applying pressure to keep you from the pole line...


Any thoughts???

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Unread postby vault3rb0y » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:50 am

Yea thats pretty much it, are you supposed to apply upward pressure with the bottom arm, or just control the pole with your top hand and guide with your bottom?
I think this was covered before in the advanced section, with no real agreement reached.
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Unread postby master » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:50 pm

scsuvaulter wrote:1) Your bottom hand in your face at take off (applying NO pressure)...
2) Your bottom hand applying pressure to keep you from the pole line...

OK guys. You can look at the photos I posted. Which do you think Bubka and Isi are doing?

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Unread postby pv161 » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:32 pm

I think they are both applying pressure with there bottom arm. one is just higher then the other. the big difference between them and the pic that started this discussion is there bottom hand is over there head, her hand is lower then her head thus applying no pressure. I think she's using speed and gymnastic ability to get to a nice inverted position rather then proper technique.

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Unread postby vaultwest » Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:54 pm

Very interesting debate as always.

Personally I am a big bottom arm guy, but it has to be done properly which I think is what PV161 is trying to say.

In my 40 plus years of studying the vault I have seen vaulters be very successful with a passive bottom arm as long as the vaulter performs all of the other aspects of the vault extremely well. I have also seen vaulters vault well missing some elements of the proper takeoff but compensating for this by using a big bottom arm sometimes even blocking out with it.

To me the correct technical model has the athlete trying to put those two vault styles together and having a big bottom arm that is extended above the head and not blocking out in front and certainly not collapsing. The Athlete performs a free takeoff and leads with the chest, with both arms extending above the head. This not only allows the vaulter to effectively load the pole but also allows them to swing correctly.

The great small male vaulters almost all did this and Feofanova certainly does and at 5'3" and 115 lbs, vaulting on a 14'165lb pole clearing 16' is to me a pretty convensing argument. to say nothing of the Tim's, Greg's, Scott's, Jeff's and Joe's of the world.

Altius told me that once Bubka told him that if he could only tell a vaulter one thing to improve his vault whether he actually saw the vault or not, that he would say( and here I paraphrase and not quote) to drive both hands towards the crossbar throughout the vault. To me this sounds like what PV161 is saying.

Vault On

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Unread postby master » Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:41 pm

Becca has posted an article about Vicki Parnov, the girl in photo 6 at the beginning of this topic.

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