Bottom arm and inverting

[2-15-46]

They do not have a bad left arm. That is an appropriate left arm for their jumping style and situation.

- master[/quote

I agree with John... there is too much focus on the bottom arm....everyone is not the same.... plant, swing, inversion and vault should be the main focus

[scsuvaulter]

I agree that people vault differently and have different styles with equal results, but if you have a plant where your bottom is collapsing like in the pics you are not putting all available energy into the pole and a lot of that energy is wasted and absorbed by the vaulters body... if the same vaulter were to change their vault at take-off (mainly their bottom arm to be more extended) they would put more energy into the pole and roll the pole to vertical easier… I believe that this is compensation for a flaw in their vault!!!

[master]

... if the same vaulter were to change their vault at take-off (mainly their bottom arm to be more extended) they would put more energy into the pole and roll the pole to vertical easier… I believe that this is compensation for a flaw in their vault!!!

I will have to respectfully disagree. I won't try to convince you of why I believe differently with a post here. However I will refer you to the many posts of altius and to his book Beginner to Bubka. You might also look at the video of Sergey Bubka's vaults as well as Isinbayeva's to see that they also allow the left arm to "disengage" as they attempt a free take off jump.

- master

[baggettpv]

They don't hold high enough to deal with the action of the bottmom arm. What you miss is the action of the takeoff not the position of takeoff. Plus the developmental stage these girls are at.
Important:
Highth of the top hand at takeoff, not being in support of the pole and ground at the same time and body jumping in good technique.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

video coming

[vault3rb0y]

Since you mentioned it, i have a question thats puzzled me for some time when comparing bubka and izi. As anyone can notice, bubka's arms are nearly locked, for a tall high plant to absorb the energy of his swing. Izi on the other hand isnt afraid to let her bottom arm bend quite a bit. They are probably the best guy and girl vaulters ever, so i have two questions.
1.) Is it really the length of the pole that determines how much bend each vaulter gets? I know izi is at least on 14' poles, so im sure if she wanted to she could press both hands high over her head, so why does she (and the girl in the sequence above) let it bend so much? And after you answer that question.... why is it more efficient for bubka to keep both hands pressed above his head, if izi does it differently?
2.) what are the advantages and disadvantages of pushing upwards at the plant with the bottom arm? I see a lot of vaulters nearly get hit in the head with their bottom arm, and still vault 17'5", and others keep their arms nearly locked and vault just as high. So what really changes with more upward pressure of the bottom arm??

Thanks to anyone who can help answer that question and get that monkey off my back!!

[Glory]

haha man that is a question i have wandered for years...how can there be so many different approaches to pole vault that allow people to jump the same heights....who knows..probably something to do with physics.ahha

[pv161]

Just for fun I would like everyone here to try this little test. wait till you have tried it before you answer this. if you can't do it yourself have one of your jumpers try it. Do a 3 step drive in drill with a spot but not allowing the spotter to push or lift you into position. you should be able to use a pole close to one of your meet poles. do a few with your bottom hand as high as you can, then do a few and put your bottom hand on your forehead. let me know what happens.

[Glory]

i can tell you right now what happens..that drill is what i call "russians" with the arm locked out you get a good bend and are in good position..with the arm in you get swept under and fall on your ace....but the question we were wandering is how can both forms get you the same heights?

[scsuvaulter]

I agree that is what would happen because I have tried it (minus the fall on your ace part...

[pv161]

I don't think they can. as you stated your hips will get sucked through when your bottom hand is real low so you have no chance to set up a powerful swing. of course there are great athletes who can get away with a lot of bad things and still jump high but I maintain that in the long run a high bottom arm plant will get you to jump higher. also you described the "russian drill" as locking your arm out. that sounds more like reaching out and blocking the bottom arm. I'm saying reach up, not out.

[master]

As anyone can notice, bubka's arms are nearly locked...

Because of the angle of the pole at take off, Bubka's arms are both extended. However, I contend they are not locked. I believe the following sequence of images from his 600cm and 611cm jumps support my contention. At the time he reaches the chord of the pole (not shown in these sequences) his left arm is again fully extended, but in the meantime it has gone through a bending at the elbow, out to the side.

- master

[vault3rb0y]

I agree. When i said "nearly locked" i meant basically that both hands are over his head and appear to be pressing upwards, while izi seems to let her chest drive forward and put (close to) no pressure with her bottom hand. Why the difference? I have heard agapit talk about how elite jumpers following the petrov model actually dont put any upward pressure, but rather hold on with their top hand, and let all the energy be absorbed through that hand. Much like a straight pole drill, he would explain. I just wonder if anyone can answer WHY izi almost hits herself in the head by letting her top hand go so far behind her head, and bubkas hands are centered over his head. I just dont get it because with a vaulting "model" i assume everyone should look similar in this aspect. So what makes the model look different for a 16'5" jumper as opposed to a 20' jumper?