Rip this vault apart(with constructive and helpful comments)

[sooch90]

All right, so here I am at today's practice.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5999691226

I'm am 5' 8.5", 130lbs, running from 5 lefts.
I was on a 14' 145lb skypole, gripping around 13', the bungee is set at 14'.

Couple things I noticed. When I plant, my bottom arm is like... mush. It gets jerked back, and then I guess that's when the pole starts bending and my bottom arm recovers. I used to push it out a little more, but that always caused me to block out so I stopped putting pressure with the bottom arm all together.

Next, the pole unbends before I can get in to that pike position. So I guess I have to swing faster? any tips on that?

Finally, I was blowing through that pole a little, so should I A) raise my grip? or B) go to the 150 lb 14' pole?


My current (competition) PR is 12' on a 13' 7" 150lb UCS, but I kept blowing through that pole pretty badly on all my attempts at 12' 3", so hopefully I'll have a nice PR tomorrow! Thanks for any advice in advance!

[vault3rb0y]

I see a good looking jump.
You are doing a lot of things right. You say your bottom arm is mush, and that might be the case for a little bit, but your hands are over your head when you start swinging, thats half the battle!! Dont hesitate to keep the pressure upward with both hands right at the plant and throughout the jump. Your plant was a little late, and there isnt much recovering from that. You could jump off the ground better, with a little more aggression in your take off and swing. That means get your drive knee up and your trail leg back. Your swing could and should be faster, which will carry you to inverted a little easier. However, The reason you arent getting inverted RIGHT NOW is because you are rowing the pole forward keeping that pole in front of you when to start to swing. Notice how your hands start above your head and as your swing passes under your body your hands row out in front a little bit. That makes it nearly impossible to get inverted, and takes away some of the energy from your swing. Instead, keep those hands pushing up, not rowing out, and it will increase the speed of your swing as you have more contraction in your abs, and you will be swinging around a vertical axis, not fighting to get inverted by swinging around an angle. But its still a great jump, keep it up! later

[theczar]

A few things I see are that your approach looks good, I wouldn't change that for now. At the plant, your bottom arm needs to be pressing a bit more, which will also help you not to get sucked under like in this jump. you do seem to get stuck in the "L" position, and I think that you are right in assuming that it is because of a slow swing. Doing alot of core strenghening should help with that (bubkas, kips, giants, ab work, etc). Getting that swing fast will improve your jump alot! A better swing will help your clearance too. you seem to drop out early. You do get your feet to the top of the pole nicely also. Just keep your feet up and keep the pole close to your body as you pull and turn.

oh and you were under your plant too, which may have contributed to you getting sucked under.


great jump tho! Keep up the good work

[sooch90]

Hey thanks for the replies guys!

vaulterboy, hm don't my hands move foward because the pole is bending? Hmm, I'm trying to get my hands higher

anyway thanks again, but keep them coming!

[vault3rb0y]

Your hands moved forward for two reasons during that jump.
1.) They were jammed back after the plant, and so at first you were bringing them forward to where they should be during the swing.

2.) Pushing (rowing) your hands forward will put more pressure into the pole, making it bend more. However, if you do this you are actually blocking out your swing, because your arms are in front and thus in the way of your swing coming through as far as it should. You will add more energy by keeping them high and not pushing forward, because that allows for a more powerful swing.

So yea, they move forward because theres bend in the pole. But ideally, they wouldnt move at all and would stay right above your head from the time you take off until you are inverted.

[sooch90]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9017224662
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8643028728

2 new videos, not PR's or anything, but just practice jumps with the bar up. For the 12' jump, it seems I didn't turn fast enough (also I blew through that pole), but do you guys think I should turn faster when I jump? Cause I always get my stomach over it, it's just my side/ side of my leg hits it when I try to get over.

[vault3rb0y]

Yea you just hit it with your leg and thigh because you are coming out a little early. Its important to stay inverted until your hips stop moving. Take a few jumps (on a bungee hopefully) where your body stays inverted even after your hips stop moving. Get the feeling for the speed of your hips, because thats critical for piking over the bar. After you learn about how fast your hips slow down on the way up, you learn the right time to drop your legs, in order for them to not hit the bar. Look at toby stevensons pike. He waits until his hips are ALMOST stopped moving, and drops his legs. Thats the basic idea, and a general hint i would give with it is this. Like all other parts of the jump, the pike is infinitely easier when previous stages are done right! Good luck.

[sooch90]

I think it might be my core? When I get my legs to the pole, I can't get them in to a good pike position, they always flag out. My legs just won't go up, either the pole unbends before I can get in to a good position to to invert, or I don't have the core to invert while the pole is moving?

What do you guys think?

Also what about the turn still? Should I turn a little quicker to get my stomach side of my body over the bar to avoid my hips/thigh knocking it off?

anyway thanks for the help!

[vault3rb0y]

Thats your problem right there, you need to bring your feet and legs farther than just to the pole. I will use the analogy Jeff Hartwig used in reno. Picture this in your mind- you can swing your feet so that they are vertical and touching the pole, but thats when the pole is bent. Now as the pole unbends, the angle your feet are at with the pole stays the same, and suddenly your feet at pointing at a 45 degree angle off the ground. Consider these two pictures:
This is a stage in the sequence of a successful vault. The key to his success is that his hips kept moving up the pole. It looks like he might be just straightening out his body, but the truth is hes using all the muscles hes built up doing bubkas to keep his body inverted despite the physics of the vault wanting to force him to flag out. The finish of this jump can go one of two ways:
The successful way, in which he keeps his hips moving up the pole and becomes inverted and push off the top even as the pole has no bend....
first
and second (push)




If you stop your hip movement, you end up in the same position on the pole as the first jump, only the pole is straight, which means you are no longer in a position to be inverted and connected with the pole:




i hope the pictures help you picture it in your mind, they were the best i could find!

[sooch90]

Hey man, great use of pictures! they helped alot.

I'm at school so I quickly skimmed over your post, but basically you're saying the muscles need to keep the legs/hips from flagging out? And also I need to swing past the pole?

Here's the thing, I'll try to get a video of this asap, but I can invert decently on a 145lb 13' skypole, but the next pole up is the 150 lb UCS 13' 7", and I flag out on that pole. So I guess this means my timing is off on the pole? I dunno, I'm not completely sure what I'm talking about lol.

But thanks for the reply man!

*edit* about bubkas... I walked over to an elementary school to try some bubkas on the monkey bars (haha a bunch of 7 year olds kepts giving me weird looks). I could swing my leg to the bar, but I couldn't execute the "bubka" part. My legs just wouldn't go any higher, and each time I would flag out. I tried the "cheater bubkas" that are demonstrated by Dub Jones in the media section, and they were fairly easy, but when I didn't have my right leg on the other side of the bar preventing my leg from falling down, I couldn't do them.

So should I just work on lots of quad and ab exercises?

[Neutron]

The thing which will help you most is the plant and take off. itf they ar properly done it really makes the rest easy. Don't worry so much about what you do on the pole. That will in large part take care of itself once you are in the right position at tke off.

You are taking off somewhat under and are collapsing your "mushy" left arm. Think about doing the following things (not all at once). First, move your step out 4-5" and don't thereafter stretch your step to be under again!. Second resist with your left arm from the very beginning of the jump. this is not "blocking" You are pushing both hands upward at 45 degrees. This will cause the pole to move out in front of you and will allow you to later swing into a rocked back position without releaing the pressur on the pole. Finally you could be a just a little more agressive on jumping off your take off foot. This will be easier to do once your step is on.

These things should put you in a better position behind the pole you the nust drive your right knee forward and upward and swing your trail leg hard, and hang on!

You've got a good fondation now take it to the next level.

Good Luck!

Neutron

[fx]

Notice how your hands start above your head and as your swing passes under your body your hands row out in front a little bit. That makes it nearly impossible to get inverted, and takes away some of the energy from your swing. Instead, keep those hands pushing up, not rowing out, and it will increase the speed of your swing

question about this vault3rboy.

when you start the swing, whether on a high bar or on a pole, isnt this rowing motion one of the key parts to starting it (as well as the tap from kicking back as far as possible)? pure upward pressure confuses me.