We are doomed. Repent and ask for forgiveness.

[agapit]

I really admire that you are a student of the event. That's OK. 19'+ is still a winner. It may take time. It is pretty crazy stuff not very easy to grasp. I am just pushing your horizons. Every single thing I am saying has been used with athletes of different levels over period of about 15 years now, not counting my own vaulting.

You have pushed my horizons ever since I read your manifest. I'm a huge fan. I think we're all just trying to cheat gravity and this site allows us to share and test our theories and put together a collaborative effort to do so. Keep posting and we'll all keep learning!

Thank you this is the best we can all do.

[vault3rb0y]

Agapit im curious, do you suggest that these aspects of a jump (left arm pull and free take off, namely) are best taught to young athletes of high school level, or do you think it may be better to teach young athletes in a way that will allow them to utilize these aspects later in their career, but not necessarily teach them to do certain things until they are ready to understand and accept them? I just know that a few of the things you say on here dont make sense to me, yet. But thats because i havent jumped 19+ feet! I think maybe when i get to that level, these concepts will be easier to understand, but until then it might be better to work on other things to improve upon. So really im just curious, what do you think?

[agapit]

Agapit im curious, do you suggest that these aspects of a jump (left arm pull and free take off, namely) are best taught to young athletes of high school level, or do you think it may be better to teach young athletes in a way that will allow them to utilize these aspects later in their career, but not necessarily teach them to do certain things until they are ready to understand and accept them? I just know that a few of the things you say on here dont make sense to me, yet. But thats because i havent jumped 19+ feet! I think maybe when i get to that level, these concepts will be easier to understand, but until then it might be better to work on other things to improve upon. So really im just curious, what do you think?

I taught this to absolute beginners as well as to 19+ vaulters. I found that it is easier to teach it to the beginners. They do not have preconceived opinions, so it is very easy for them to learn.

I suggest you do not complicate the issue. Think of the vault as a stick jumping over small bushes. You may want to try that one day. Note what you are doing when stick jumping.

In my opinion if you are doing something different in the vault you are probably wrong. Simplify, simplify, simplify.

Please, let me know if this helped you.

[vault3rb0y]

Thats exactly the way i TRY to percieve things when i jump. The only thing i let go through my mind during a practice is what i am trying to change- only one thing at a time. If i need more aggression at the box, i concentrate on aggression at the box and leave the rest to muscle memory. When i get to a meet, theres even less thinking, almost all concentrated muscle memory and adrenaline. Ive learned thats what i need to do recently, and its helped me PR by 1 1/2 feet in less than 2 months. Although my coach would agree i still sometimes tend to overanalyze the vault, when it all it really is, is jumping over a horizontal fiberglass bush with a fiberglass stick. Its just some bushes are bigger than others . Thanks, that helped a lot!

[agapit]

Thats exactly the way i TRY to percieve things when i jump. The only thing i let go through my mind during a practice is what i am trying to change- only one thing at a time. If i need more aggression at the box, i concentrate on aggression at the box and leave the rest to muscle memory. When i get to a meet, theres even less thinking, almost all concentrated muscle memory and adrenaline. Ive learned thats what i need to do recently, and its helped me PR by 1 1/2 feet in less than 2 months. Although my coach would agree i still sometimes tend to overanalyze the vault, when it all it really is, is jumping over a horizontal fiberglass bush with a fiberglass stick. Its just some bushes are bigger than others . Thanks, that helped a lot!

This is a very valid point.

One of the major points of the Vault Model that I promote is simplification. It does become increasingly important in particular at Huge Competitions Like Games, Trials, US Champs etc.

You want the adrenaline, but it comes with accost in the pole vault. The run-up length and speed change. The grip increases, etc. It is important for the model to remain robust to these changes.

I think, that is why LoJo was able to win straight 6 US Champs, and be consistent and the big competitions at the pressure moments (when he was not injured).

[vault3rb0y]

Thats definitely what i also see as true. Its not how high you can jump, its how many times you can come close to what you SHOULD be jumping consistently.

I measure competitive success in the vault by your overall PR and by what you are able to reach consistently. I would put my money on someone with a PR of 18'8" who can clear 18'5" consistently over someone who popped a 19' once or twice and what been in high 17's low 18's since. All that really matters is being able to perform when it counts, no matter the conditions. The only way to do that is to be consistent in every part of the jump. Thats something im going to have to opportunity to explore the rest of the outdoor season. I havent had a meet in 2 weeks, and over the next month i will have our Conference Championship, State Championship, Meet of champs, and two weeks later Nike Outdoor. All of which are high pressure, high adrenaline meets. The only way i can perform the way i KNOW i can is by channeling the adrenaline, and all other factors for that matter, into vault consistently. Thanks for the conversation, i really enjoyed it!

[jftvaulter]

Agapit is as good at catching inside straight draws on the river in Texas Hold'em as he is at sharing the "correct" way to change our mindset of the event for the sake of the sport.

I spent about 1.5 hours (yes metric hours, not english units) carefully reading his responses and think this is priceless literature.

[agapit]

Agapit is as good at catching inside straight draws on the river in Texas Hold'em as he is at sharing the "correct" way to change our mindset of the event for the sake of the sport.

I spent about 1.5 hours (yes metric hours, not english units) carefully reading his responses and think this is priceless literature.

Thanks Trem.

P.S. I had 5 outs in that straight that's why I did it, but really only two outs would do hence you know who had two pair.

[agapit]

Agapit is as good at catching inside straight draws on the river in Texas Hold'em as he is at sharing the "correct" way to change our mindset of the event for the sake of the sport.

I spent about 1.5 hours (yes metric hours, not english units) carefully reading his responses and think this is priceless literature.

I think I won $175 in this hand. LOL.

Trem, congratulations on coaching the State Record Holder and a Champion!

[LHSVaulterJJR]

after reading and "meditating" over this entire post for hours i find problems with a number of instances. the first that arrises is the perpetual argument within this post amongst applying absolutly no upward force with the bottom arm


(reference)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYaBPDTrVuI




bubka the "prophet" in this video. may have his arm bent, but it still seems to me like he is applying upward pressure for at least a fraction of a second to engage the initial pole bend. his hand may have been at his head but this was (what i believe as an error) later corrected on his part.

Secondly
in the same video after bubka finishes his take off. his arm continues to straighten! Now unless you are refering your immediate pull after the take off to "rowing" . The bicep MUST bend the elbow continuily. UNLESS you pull with your lats or with your upperback due to a retraction of the shoulders. If you analyze this video you will see bubkas shoulders certainly do NOT retract. as a matter of fact there pulled FORWARDS. so that eliminates pulling with the upper back. secondly pulling with your lats can only occur when shoulders are retracted. otherwise all other efforts to pull with your lats just make you "row". (if u dont believe me stand there .. extend your arms and try to pull towards your chest abs or hips with your lats without a shoulder retraction. it doesnt happen). so he could not have been pulling throughout the entire vault. and obviously if his lower arm is straightening throughout the vault (he may not be pushing) hes certainly not pulling with it.


now lastly say someone performed a proper takeoff and pulled directly with the left arm after the takeoff was complete. ok ..... ok.
now the affect that would have on someones inversion would be detrimental. not positive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov4gjUf6fZI

this is a video of a very dear vaulter of mine. granted her takeoff is certainly not free. BUT as you explained if someone finishes there takeoff and pulls with the left arm it would speed up there swing rotation and get them inverted quicker. now sandi has a VERY fast pole run. (shes one of the fastest hurdlers in the nation). and she has plenty of pole bend wich would have allowed her bottom arm to naturally straighten as bubkas would. But shes pulling directly through her bottom arm in her vault and that keeps her arm exessivley bent. and as a result of an early pull it raises her shoulder level to high for her to properly get inverted.

correct me if im wrong but according to my analysis bubka obviously wasnt pulling. and if you continually pull from takeoff it will displace your shoulders. leaving them too high and your hips to low to invert affectively

[powerplant42]

correct me if im wrong but according to my analysis bubka obviously wasnt pulling. and if you continually pull from takeoff it will displace your shoulders. leaving them too high and your hips to low to invert affectively

I believe you are wrong. Chain theory came out of the USSR and so did Bubka. Not so suprisingly, they met eachother. Chain theory (pole vault manifesto) calls for this type of 'pulling' force. It helps keep the body as strong as possible, and it helps provide swing energy. Maybe somebody who knows more could clarify.

[ladyvolspvcoach]

One of the biggest problems that I see on this board is the there can be a perception of an action that has nothing to do with the action. A perfect example is Agapit's challenge of the swing...and I agree...the same is true of the chest penetration..there is no chest penetration.. instead there is an attempt to move the head to the left elbow. This allows the COM to stay low and positiont it self for maximum energy involvement during inversiion...