ESSX

[lonpvh]

Here Either!!!

[das_1971]

I've broke 5 poles in my short time, 2 pacer IIIs, a spirit, and 2 pacer carbons. The two pacer IIIs were old and sat out for years, so its no wounder. The spirit was a 14' 160, and I couldn't tell you what happened with it. The two carbons were strange brakes though. One broke on its first ever jump, it was a 15' 180, I'm only 150lbs, and it broke 5 feet from the top. We guessed shipping damage. The other was a 15' 160 that hit a standard once. It broke on the next jump.
Now I have quite a few spirits that have been run through the ringer and they are still good. The same can be said for skypoles, and most the older glass poles. The carbons I used broke very easily. So in my experience, the carbon is more fragile. I've also seen more carbons brake then spirits. Thats just what I've seen. Note that I didn't comment of FX's, because I haven't yet used one, and apperently their a world of a difference between them and old carbons.

A note to the manufacturers: don't always just mention the details of you most recent models. Not every one can buy or already has a new pole, and would probably appriciate it if you could account for the more recent years and modles instead of just whats on the drawling board. Thats my opinion anyway...

Oh yeah, haven't got on my new essx yet for one reason or another, so I can't say anything about them either.

[Bruce Caldwell]

"impact strength from a side hit will be 60% stronger" - that is an interesting number - and unless you make a carbon pole with the carbon layer on the outside - the whole argument is invalid if you are talking about what the carbon does - 60% more impact force before it creates a stress riser in the pole! ??? - but that has nothing to do with impact testing - If you are talking about ability to sustain with damage caused by hitting a hard object or spike marks - then resin and wall thickness is the answer- but - it also adds weight - i.e. - a training pole - wall thickness is the issue with carbon - thinner walls (our carbon is not on the outside layers) - lighter poles - so surface damage on any pole is not good - location and depth are import - depth of damage to thickness is critical (so thinner wall!!!) - now another comment I read - "So will you Gill guys back down for a minute and listen then think before you attack me" this was posted before I posted this - and my previous post attacked no one - it said numerous times if the pole works well for you that is good - also said good can be defined many ways - if someone takes that as an attack - maybe the world needs to lighten up by the way Bruce - I agree that carbon by itself is not as good in impact tests as fiberglass or aramid fibers - but in a composite material like pole vault poles - surface layer damage and stress risers are more of a factor than the basic carbon property - time to go vault

The number is derived from impact test done from 1 foot with a 6lb ball 1" square in size against Carbon in its cured form.

Same test was done with "S" layers on top of carbon and karbonite and the product presented additional impact strength.

Comparisons are against Karbonite vs. Carbon which had 60% greater impact strength. Karbonite is a material we have named that was used in the Aerospace Industry that has most recently been reslease to us for testing.
Predominitly this will be considered for use in smaller length poles where the athletes tend to abuse the poles more. we maybe 6 month out on this product. The elastic strength is not as strong as carbon IM6 or IM7 used in World class poles and it is not as expensive either.

The process is to allow a stiffer pole with less weight and carry weight.

[Decamouse]

Hey Bruce - that is great - it also shows the dilemma all manuf. face - how to make poles that fill all the requirements - wgt, performance, durability - trades offs will happen - we could all make a pole that no one would break - but it would not allow someone to vault to their highest potential - making a pole that younger vaulters (who are not typically as careful with there poles) is a splendid concept - we continue to prototype new materials - I have been practicing on a new carbon prototype for weeks - aerospace industry is one good source of high tech materials - in the past my travels have taken me to some interesting jobs and there are many high end materials that we are still prototyping - may work in one application well but not in another

Regarding older versions of poles - if you ask or can give a specific yr of manufac. it is easier - regardless - Das_1971 - "The other was a 15' 160 that hit a standard once. It broke on the next jump." The location of the damage - nick - stress riser - really the critical part - I have a Pacer FX that someone at one of the vault camps stepped on - big nasty - nasty gouge - luckly on the compression side - still using it - had it been located differently - probably would have broke by now. I have seen numerous poles hit std - and no problem - that is also why the round ball impact test has some value but is not the whole picture - does not take into account stress risers - that is also why there are numerous tests for materials -

[swtvault]

PVjunkie said...

I did it..........I put Mystic Carbon poles on all my Pacer Carbon poles when I was in college.

Brian, please dont tell us any stories about you in fishnets and a dress!

[achtungpv]

Come on now. Everybody in the know knows that the Nordic 600 series is where it's at.

[das_1971]

Regarding older versions of poles - if you ask or can give a specific yr of manufac. it is easier - regardless - Das_1971 - "The other was a 15' 160 that hit a standard once. It broke on the next jump." The location of the damage - nick - stress riser - really the critical part - I have a Pacer FX that someone at one of the vault camps stepped on - big nasty - nasty gouge - luckly on the compression side - still using it - had it been located differently - probably would have broke by now. I have seen numerous poles hit std - and no problem - that is also why the round ball impact test has some value but is not the whole picture - does not take into account stress risers - that is also why there are numerous tests for materials -[/quote]

Yeah thats what I was getting at. Its hard to write messages and change diapers at same time, you forget stuff... anyway, ummm, my spirits were all 96s and 7s, and the carbon pacers were a series from 98. One major difference I noticed is how much better the heavier poles felt compaired to the lighter ones. the lighter carbons felt rigid to press and very weak and flimsly(also inconsistant) on the return. The 15' 70 and 75 felt a lot smoother all around. I liked the 180 we had, but it was a bit big for me... regular glass seems a little more consistent in feel to me.

[Decamouse]

man I thought that was way in the past - then the grandchildren show up - time to work in the garage - late 90's carbons were pre-fx - still improving the design and consistentancy - some were to aggressive - the weight think is also a mind think - it feels different - you take what you know and feel comfrotable with - then try something different - it still comes down to what works for you - even if pole A is better than Pole B (weight, stiffness, hoop strength, acceleration characteristics etc.) but you always jump better on Pole B - then it is a better pole for you - once we get completely set up in the new factory I will have harder numbers for comparisions.

[Bruce Caldwell]

GILL MOVING TOO!
Is Gill moving to TEXAS we need another pole manufacturer here now that there are two!!!!!

[Decamouse]

I think Wisconsin is a much better rumor - reality - a couple miles - Champaign address instead of Urbana - plus in Texas we would need a bigger cooler to keep the fiberglass in - up here you can leave it outside with your beer for half the year

[das_1971]

poles don't do good left out around here. I found my car under a snow drift once.

[das_1971]

let me rephrase. Poles do NOT do good left out. I got a few for kicks that were left in a field a couple years. the oulter layer of resin is dust and the fiber is exposed. I give someone a dollar to jump on one