ESSX

A forum to discuss everything to do with pole vaulting equipment: poles, pits, spikes, etc.

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Bruce Caldwell
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Alot of misinformation out there isn't there!

Unread postby Bruce Caldwell » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:27 pm

A lot of misinformation out there isn't there!
The reality is..........an essx pole and a carbon pole have very little if any similarities. The Essx sail design and position are most similar to the sail and position of a Skypole. So............if you want a alternative to the Skypole or vice versa, there it is.


THAT IS NOT A CORRECT STATEMENT EITHER
The only problem I see is.................you can only get them from one co. and they ARE the most aggressive pole on the market (I can back that one up with research its not just my opinion).

Pacer makes a very good vaulting pole however the fact is they are not the only company making carbon poles
CARBON POLES ARE MORE LIKELY to break no matter the brand;
My comments are not personal or slamming of any company it is a fact.

So will you Gill guys back down for a minute and listen then think before you attack me.

When you manufacture a carbon vaulting pole the procedure is to apply carbon to add stiffness and strength so that other types of glass "S" and "E" glass can be reduced or removed.
In doing so you have a thinner vaulting pole and you have a lighter pole.
This pole being thinner is subject to less impact strength and has a greater potential of breakage if struck by the crossbar, standards, or the runway if not caught.

When using a carbon pole as any vaulting pole you need to catch the pole.
Carbon has less impact strength than normal glass weaves such as "S' and "E" glass.

The perfect world would be a carbon that has greater impact strength to go along with the stiffness strength to provide much more side impact for those times when the pole cannot be caught.
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Unread postby PVJunkie » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:28 pm

Now we are getting into false statements. Earl does not "build" poles. They are and always have been built by our craftsman here in Urbana Ill. If Earl "builds" poles with his own hands its not done here at Gill.

As for the label.............NONE of us at ANY factory would EVER knowingly allow a different sticker to be put on one of our poles, HOWEVER, it has been done. I did it..........I put Mystic Carbon poles on all my Pacer Carbon poles when I was in college. Its really not that hard to do if you can get a sticker. Was it done in this case.............I dont know but logic would say that if Bruce has told us he does not build carbon poles (cause they are "bad") then if there are carbon poles with essx labels..........where did they come from?? Kelly S has a set of essx carbons, built by essx. Who knows what was done with the rest.

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Unread postby PVJunkie » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:34 pm

No one is attacking you................its called debate.

Man is it good to have you back Bruce....................I say again, show me the research and I will have to agree. If this is you opinion then let it be just that. I would argue that just as many all "glass" poles break as carbon. In fact given the ability and demands placed by the average cabon user (typically the more aggressive vaulters use carbon) they may even break less often. Of course THAT is my opinion.

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smokinvaulter1
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Unread postby smokinvaulter1 » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:36 pm

All I got to say is I just got an awesome ine of FX carbons this week that worked perfect. I think Im in love with this line and won't change for nothing. Thanks for all the help Bryan. :yes:

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Bruce Caldwell
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Posts: 1783
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:19 pm
Expertise: It is all about Pole Vaulting. I even catch the competitors poles!
Lifetime Best: 15'8"
Favorite Vaulter: Kjell Issakson, Jan Johnson
Location: DFW TEXAS
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Congrats to Pacer Gill for their accomplishments

Unread postby Bruce Caldwell » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:39 pm

"PVJunkie"]Here we go again..................

6 of the top 10 (including the top 4 and a new National HS record) high school boys used CARBON FX.................

5 of the top 10 men in the US were on CARON poles..................

4 of the top 10 (and the world leader with the top 3 best jumps this yr) are on CARBON.................

Congratulations to PACER GILL as they have worked hard to get these records and they deserve to be able to tell people about them just as I have the right to tell people about our success stories without malice
Maybe you should post it in a PACER GILL thread rather in an ESSX thread?
I love the PV, it is in my DNA

PVJunkie
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Unread postby PVJunkie » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:40 pm

Thanks Jeremy..............another UNSOLICITED satisfied Carbon FX cust.

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Bruce Caldwell
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Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:19 pm
Expertise: It is all about Pole Vaulting. I even catch the competitors poles!
Lifetime Best: 15'8"
Favorite Vaulter: Kjell Issakson, Jan Johnson
Location: DFW TEXAS
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that is wonderful stick wiht what works for you

Unread postby Bruce Caldwell » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:41 pm

smokinvaulter1 wrote:All I got to say is I just got an awesome ine of FX carbons this week that worked perfect. I think Im in love with this line and won't change for nothing. Thanks for all the help Bryan. :yes:


You should stay with what works best for you.

GOOD luck on your vaulting.
I love the PV, it is in my DNA

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smokinvaulter1
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Unread postby smokinvaulter1 » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:47 pm

When I get the cash flow built back up again I need to Get a new Pacer pole bag so I can get rid of this Ugly spirit one I have now.

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Unread postby lonpvh » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:48 pm

OR HERE!!!
Last edited by lonpvh on Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Decamouse
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Really - is that a Charphy value?

Unread postby Decamouse » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:50 pm

"impact strength from a side hit will be 60% stronger" :confused: - that is an interesting number - and unless you make a carbon pole with the carbon layer on the outside - the whole argument is invalid if you are talking about what the carbon does - 60% more impact force before it creates a stress riser in the pole! ??? - but that has nothing to do with impact testing - If you are talking about ability to sustain with damage caused by hitting a hard object or spike marks - then resin and wall thickness is the answer- but - it also adds weight - i.e. - a training pole - wall thickness is the issue with carbon - thinner walls (our carbon is not on the outside layers) - lighter poles - so surface damage on any pole is not good - location and depth are import - depth of damage to thickness is critical (so thinner wall!!!) - now another comment I read - "So will you Gill guys back down for a minute and listen then think before you attack me" this was posted before I posted this - and my previous post attacked no one - it said numerous times if the pole works well for you that is good - also said good can be defined many ways - if someone takes that as an attack - maybe the world needs to lighten up ;) by the way Bruce - I agree that carbon by itself is not as good in impact tests as fiberglass or aramid fibers - but in a composite material like pole vault poles - surface layer damage and stress risers are more of a factor than the basic carbon property - time to go vault :)
Plant like crap sometimes ok most times

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Bruce Caldwell
PV Enthusiast
Posts: 1783
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:19 pm
Expertise: It is all about Pole Vaulting. I even catch the competitors poles!
Lifetime Best: 15'8"
Favorite Vaulter: Kjell Issakson, Jan Johnson
Location: DFW TEXAS
Contact:

Unread postby Bruce Caldwell » Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:02 pm

Last edited by Bruce Caldwell on Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I love the PV, it is in my DNA

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Unread postby wayupthere » Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:03 pm

Ya I heard the same as PV Junkie that Carbons are actually stronger and harder to break.
hmmmm


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