We are doomed. Repent and ask for forgiveness.

This is a forum to discuss advanced pole vaulting techniques. If you are in high school you should probably not be posting or replying to topics here, but do read and learn.

Do you repent?

I do
48
68%
I don't
23
32%
 
Total votes: 71

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agapit
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Unread postby agapit » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:41 am

MightyMouse wrote:First off; Peoples slight confidence or ego is multiplied by 10 when they post online. So often some slight humor comes off as condescending. Im hoping that’s agapits case

Secondly: According to Agapit what exactly is the left hand doing during take off? It cant immediately begin to pull? Can it?


I know you were expecting me to dance around the issues and say "Oh no this is not what I mean". Well let me comfort you. YES the left arms intention is to pull imeadeatelly after the take-off is complete.

P.S. Looking at the poll more that half of you have hope. LOL.
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agapit
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Unread postby agapit » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:09 am

master wrote:
agapit wrote:You can see at his best jumps the chest does not penetrate as far and the hand does not get as close to the forehead. However, that is NOT because he was pushing the pole, but because the free take-off was performed correctly.

Let me ask this question. In a proper free take-off, should the vaulter attempt to have the arms and shoulders and chest muscles tightened at the time the pole tip hits the back of the box? I am thinking this would apply more of the kinetic energy of the vaulter's body to the pole by reducing the amount the upper body flexes.

- master


When you are taking-off in long jump does your body tightens after the take-off? It would be silly wouldn’t it. The correct take-off stretches your body vertically (hand to toe) rather than laterally (chest penetration).

Now if you do not experience any resistance from the pole while you on the ground, you do not need to tighten anything. The energy of the impulse (mass x speed) is simply transferred through the grip. Even if you are just slightly late with completing your free take-off it still would be more beneficial not to resist or “tightenâ€Â
Last edited by agapit on Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby SlickVT » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:09 am

Just to clarify... I would love to be doomed to 19 foot vaulting!
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Unread postby agapit » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:14 am

SlickVT wrote:Just to clarify... I would love to be doomed to 19 foot vaulting!


If you do not have a thirst for 21 ft you will not be doomed.

You will simply go through a very exciting, educational, character building fitness program and would be as you are already a part of the vaulting family.

P.S. After I have seen what is possible 19ft does not move me. But it is just my personal attitude. I feel obligated to keep the hope and witness alive.
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Unread postby agapit » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:30 am

We are at 50/50 on the poll. I have expected the poll to be 20/80 the golden ratio. The way to the kindom is narrow and very few will enter through the gates.

Many would reject it, but the judgement would be issues on the mount of Olympus.

LOL.
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Tim McMichael
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Unread postby Tim McMichael » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:45 am

have heard of Averbukh doing drills on a 5m pole where he takes off, releases his bottom hand, and moves the pole to vertical with just his top hand on the pole.

It would help you to grip the pole with the left arm for balance purposes, but yes you can move your competition pole into the pit with one arm. I have done it and many others did as well. It is tricky to remove left completely, but if you have good balance you can do it. I have done it many times and I have seen people doing it on close to 5m grips.


I have also released by bottom hand from a pole just after takeoff. The left arm need not be on the pole at all once it starts moving. I do not disput that. I want to see someone release the bottom hand in the middle of their plant motion, BEFORE they leave the ground.
Last edited by Tim McMichael on Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postby achtungpv » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:14 am

Tim McMichael wrote:I have also released by bottom hand from a pole just after takeoff. The left arm need not be on the pole at all once it starts moving. I want to see someone release the bottom hand in the middle of their plant motion, BEFORE they leave the ground.


I'm not sure on exactly when he releases. Maybe lonestar can clarify since he coaches the Israeli vaulter who told him about this drill.
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Unread postby vaultman18 » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:35 am

Tim McMichael
How big was the pole, and how much did she bend it? Did her chest touch it before it started bending
?

The pole was above her body weight maybe 10-15 pounds above. Remember she is a beginner I know it wasn't a 5m grip and 12.0 flex. NO her chest does not touch the pole. This girl has no preconcieved notions about PV. I have told her the run and swing bend the pole she has no conception of the bottom arm doing anything other than pull. What I see all the time are coaches actively teaching beginners to push or lock same difference to beginner because they feel it is the only way to bend the pole. I was taught to lock-push I jumped high quickly but could never improve I was trapped until I saw the way of Agapit. Anyway this girl can push her biggest pole one handed now and bend-move it to vertical 25 pounds over her weight. She does two things Free Take-off and Jumps UP. One thing I notice without the bottom arm on the pole things get a little out of control.

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Unread postby Tim McMichael » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:52 am

Post a vid please. This is something I really want to see, and it would make the point clear. Before I accept something that sounds as dangerous as this, I need to see what it looks like so that there is no misunderstanding.

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Unread postby vaultman18 » Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:14 pm

Tim I will try, she went down in a hurdle race last week and injured her wrist. She is going to try and vault in a meet today. I will film her but I am not sure if she will be 100%. I am not making excuse as soon as she does it I will post it. Like I said before it did scare me the first time so I can understand your skepticism I did not think it was possible either. You must have free take-off and jump-up. It is hard to think about because it goes against everything most vaulters have been taught.

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Unread postby agapit » Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:25 pm

vaultman18 wrote:Tim I will try, she went down in a hurdle race last week and injured her wrist. She is going to try and vault in a meet today. I will film her but I am not sure if she will be 100%. I am not making excuse as soon as she does it I will post it. Like I said before it did scare me the first time so I can understand your skepticism I did not think it was possible either. You must have free take-off and jump-up. It is hard to think about because it goes against everything most vaulters have been taught.


Thank you. Vaulters have incorrect assumptions for a long time, since the fiber was introduced. Bubka was first and the only one to really show a different concept. It is mind bugling that it still eludes most people. I must say it is a counter intuitive concept to grasp initially, but than it makes perfect sense once you understand it. I think pole bend added dimension that our minds cannot reconcile easily, that is why it is so difficult.

Besides, many were teaching from the beginning to gain advantage from fiberglass higher grip. To achieve a higher grip one must bend the pole more, for this reason left arm push and all this energy transfer into the pole theories.

Well the time showed that this is wrong and there are more similarities between fiber and still than there are differences. No one would have an idea to push still pole on the ground, but people think that it is ok and even beneficial on fiber.

Just a little historical perspective.
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Unread postby gtc » Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:54 pm

If you read The Original Manifesto (I hope Tim would change the name of his post to avoid confusions)

I wish we could change the name of the "Texas Pole Vault Manifesto"
Because I sometimes get it confused with the original 6.40 Manifesto, because there are so many similarities! :D


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