excused to do another event, but for how long?

[master]

As I read the NFHS rule book, Rule 7 Section 2 Article 7 (in 2006 rule book)

...Time limit for competitors excused to compete in another event shall be determined by the games committee.

How is it done where you work the pole vault? How much before the other event is to start can a competitor check out of the pole vault? How long must the vault competition wait? How long after the other event is complete does the vaulter have till they must initiate a vault attempt?

- master

[AVC Coach]

Those are all determined by the games committee at any given meet. Can and will be different from meet to meet.

[drcurran]

At the meeting before competition I tell the vaulter if you need to leave for another event, check out with me, when you return, check back in. I will put you at the end of the list of vaulters, if you have not returned and we are ready to raise the bar, you will get a pass, it is not fair to keep the "field" on hold for one athlete. This has always worked for me. I could see this method as a problem with maybe only 2 or 3 vaulters left when one needs to leave. We could go up several "bars" before he / she returns. The Federation rule book use to say 10 min. but they dropped that some time ago.
Big meets the official should check with the "games committee" before the start of competition so everyone know what kind of time limit we will be working with.

Dan

[master]

What prompted my question is a vaulter checked out to run an event, but the event didn't actually start until about 20-30 minutes after the check out. Then on return, the vaulter was given 10 minutes to vault; the 10 minute part of this was mentioned by two coaches there.

Dan, it's good for me to know where that idea came from since I didn't find it in the rule book when I looked after the meet. Also, I like the idea of just moving the vaulter to the end of the rotation to minimize the impact on them. That is allowed by the rules Article 6. I also like just assigning a pass to the vaulter if they have not returned by the time the bar is to be raised.

What do people think of this idea. With the vaulter now at the end of the rotation and they are up, just wait the 1.5 minutes allowed (or more when less vaulters) before assigning a pass, and do this each time they are up. If that means they have passed by default in the last round at a height, so be it. The bar gets raised and the competition continues with them still at the end of the rotation.

All opinions and suggestions are encouraged. What do you HS vaulters think? Some of you have probably had to wait for people excused to do another event and some of you have been the ones for which the event has been held up.

- master

[ladyvolspvcoach]

Master, I do the same thing Dan does! The situation I find myself in frequently is a field of 30+ kids in both the boys and girls events. That is going to be a 4 to 5 hour comp depending where I set the opening height. Which btw I never set lower than 7 feet. I also do not seperate the boys from the girls. I start at the starting height and who ever is going to jump - jumps!!! I do that in the interest of time otherwise the busess will have already gotten home before the pole vault is finished. I find that the decathletes will compete in all 10 events as individual competitors, so they are gone during most of the pole vault event. So I try to accomodate as much as possible. They also have the annoying habit of starting at the starting height and finally going out at 10'6 or so and clearing each height on their third attempt. So the event takes for ever to complete.

[stormvault]

If you look in the 2007 case book it outlines that exact situation. It is on page 69(no joke) under 7.2.7. I think this is the first year they have outlined that situation in the case book.

As for the kid checking out 30 minutes before his event that is just rediculous. You can always make the athlete take their trial before they leave.

[master]

If you look in the 2007 case book it outlines that exact situation. It is on page 69(no joke) under 7.2.7. I think this is the first year they have outlined that situation in the case book.

Thanks! I'll check that tomorrow at practice.

- master

[drcurran]

Hey ladyvolspvcoach -
I like the idea of starting at a height and then go straight through and each vaulter male or female comes in where they want to. The problem I have is, if I'm working a HS and there are like 30 guys and 20 girls. It would seem the warm up would be an issue. Have you tired to run it male and female with this large a group? Thanks

Dan

PS - Sorry I won't be at Sea Rays this year - hope to be back in '08!

[vault3rb0y]

What seems to work fastest in a large group is 5-alive as well as passing a kid if hes not back from an event. I would say let kids know they will be passed if they are not back, and then dont worry about it! Ive seen 20 boys and 20 girls start a meet at 4 and end at 730 with heights from 8-15'6 and 6-11' for boys and girls.

[un poco loca saltar]

I guess for each division there are slightly different rules. for my division athletes can check out to go to another event, but at a reasonable interval. if they're going to go do the 200, the athlete can wait until after the 2 mile, they should not go before then because other wise it's just a waste of everyone else's time. But basically, the general rule of thumb is that the athlete does their attempt at a hight and when they clear it *or not, i guess it depends* they can check out to do their event. while they are gone all the other athletes at that height do their attempts and the bar moves up. at the nest hight everyone goes, and if everyone is done before the checked out athlete is back, the bar is held for them, no matter what the length of time is. when the checked out athlete is done with their part in their event *not when their event is over* they have ten minutes to check back in before they HAVE to make an attempt at the bar. does that make sense?

the bar doesn't get moved up until all athlete's in the event have either made it or missed all their attempts. even if it does mean waiting twenty minutes for the athlete to come back.

normally five alive is used when there are a lot of athletes, so most have the courtesy to finish their attempts before they disappear for a time. mainly in dual meets people being checked out isn't that big of a problem because they are run well, though i can see how some officials might just feel like moving on in the competition is better than waiting forever for one person to come back.

[master]

The NFHS 2007 Casebook was extremely helpful to me for this problem. I have written a "procedure" that I have given to the head coach. I recommended he send that to each head coach of a team that will compete on our home track. That way they will know ahead of time what to expect. Per NFHS rule 7.2.7, the games committee has the right to establish the time allotted to be excused for an event. Based on several of the cases in the casebook where they indicated the person was gone for 15 minutes, and they described the situation as the athlete not returning in the alloted time, I conclude they consider 10-15 minutes reasonable time.

There was one entry I thought was very useful. I have quoted it below.

Guidelines for a competitor who has been excused from a field event to compete in another event include:

a. The competitor must receive permission from the event judge.

b. The judge must record the time excused.

c. The judge may allow the competitor to take a trial out of turn before being excused.

d. The judge will use some judgment in extending the time excused under
special circumstances, e.g., 3200-meter run.

e. In the high jump and pole vault, if the competitor has failed to return in
the allotted time and all other remaining competitors have either
passed, failed or cleared the existing height, the crossbar will be raised
to the next height and the judge will automatically pass the excused
competitor to the new height.

f. Coaches must take into account the limited time allowed to compete in
another event when determining the events any individual competitor
enters.

g. When an unusual circumstance, injury, reruns, etc., occurs that will
prolong the absence of the excused participant, it shall be the competitor's
responsibility to communicate this to the event judge.

Thanks to everyone's inputs and suggestions.

- master

[rainbowgirl28]

The NFHS 2007 Casebook was extremely helpful to me for this problem. I have written a "procedure" that I have given to the head coach.

Can you post this "procedure"?

We have our first home pole vault tomorrow (the pits are finally fixed) and there are already 9 girls and 9 guys entered from other schools, plus I think I have about 9 girls and 5 guys of my own who are going to jump. This is just a 4-way league meet!

Obviously I want to minimize the time we spend waiting for kids in other events and it is helpful for me to see what other people are doing. It's been awhile since I officiated a big HS meet.