Arm Position at Takeoff Question

[Boomer]

Hey all,
I am wondering what people teach, or what the BTB would teach about arm position at takeoff.
I have read the part about being right arm above head, left at eye level on penultimate stride, but am wondering what angle coaches and athletes preach in the extension of the arms.
I know some who state punch the left arm straight up, some preach a more relaxed left arm.
What would BTB say about that?
I guess I could read the book, but I like the advice from people in the field too
Thanks,

[altius]

Whwn Iknow you have bought the book I will expand on any questions you have!!

[vault3rb0y]

Your arms should keep the pressure upward as much as possible at takeoff. Your top hand should be right above your head, and your bottom arm should be not locked and not too relaxed.... its a happy medium. If you are on a long enough pole, however, your bottom arm will appear locked. The only problem with this is that you cant UNLOCK it, and you end up blocking out any chance for inversion. This way you are as tall as you can be on take off, with as much pressure as possible. After you take off the ground, your chest should lead. Subsequently, your hands will come over your head and your trail leg will be thrown way behind you. Your head at this point should be centered beneath your hands, so that your bottom hand has moved up and back. This will give you a good amount of energy into the pole as you swing.

I hope that helps. It might be good to watch some videos of bubka or isi and keep that in mind.

[OUvaulterUSAF]

I believe the arms are described as "Flexible Steel". My take on that is the arms act as big shocks at take-off. So yeah it's a happy medium...don't lock them out but don't break them either. So picture putting both arms straight above your head at the take-off. Everything is always moving up, not horizontally into the pit.

[Vault Chick]

We just had Tye Harvey come do a clinic at our school, and he and I talked a lot about the plant. His approach to the plant is this: Your top hand should be directly above you shoulder, not your head. (for right handers, the top hand would be above your right shoulder) He suggests this because he said this prevents helicoptering. Also, for the bottom arm, he wants it pressing up, with your hand right above your forehead. This plant causes there to be space between your head, and about the middle of your top arm, which is what Tye wants/does. For me, I was blocking out bad, so he wanted me to just apply PRESSURE, and not blocking out by putting my bottom arm (left hand) pressured, but above my forehead so that I would be pressing up. Hope this info helps!

[altius]

Interesting ideas from Ty - but suggest y'all look at what Isinbyeva does and what all followers of the Petrov model, including Bubka, do/did.

[ladyvolspvcoach]

I completely agree Alan! I'd also be interested to hear discussions about the role of the left hand. IE. is the plant initiated with the left hand or the right!!! And how much control should you give the right (top) hand????

[vault3rb0y]

I completely agree Alan! I'd also be interested to hear discussions about the role of the left hand. IE. is the plant initiated with the left hand or the right!!! And how much control should you give the right (top) hand????

Well to kick off that question with, most likely, an amatuer response, this is something ive picked up in the past few months.

At this point, i am not concerned about a pole drop, as long as the drop is natural and both hands are up at the plant. That may not be right, and correct me, but right now thats too much for me to think about as i vault. Anyways, i believe that ideally both hands would be over your head at the plant. The problem is, if both hands are over your head, your pole tip is about 5 feet above the box!! So i try to keep my top hand right over my shoulder, like said above, then as soon as i leave the ground and the tip is in the box, my bottom arm comes up and above my head. Now to answer your question, at least the way i am vaulting, my top hand initiates the plant, but immediately after the plant, my bottom hand comes up.

Im not sure if thats the direction you were going with the question, but thats a start!! lol

[altius]

"So i try to keep my top hand right over my shoulder, like said above, then as soon as i leave the ground and the tip is in the box, my bottom arm comes up and above my head."

I have no problem with anyone sharing their experiences but unfortunately these statements should not be taken on board by anyone else. What is being descrided is a classic late plant. It is very bad advice because it is completely the opposite of what most of the great vaulters of recent times actually do/did.

The hands should in position for take off BEFORE the take off foot hits the ground. This is set up in the previous phase where, when the athlete in still on the right leg but moving on to the left- say half way - , the top hand should be just above the head and the left hand at eye level.

At the instant the tip of the pole hits the box, BOTH hands should be driving up through the pole as a result of the whole body being driven up at take off. The right hand is driven up vertically above the head =and the left hand - being attached to the pole - will also follow that path -but remember that both arms are attached to a body which is moving up and forwards as this happens -so relative to the ground the hands will be moving up and forwards -hence the confusion for untrained observers .The body must be solid from top hand to take off foot aT THIS POINT AND THE RIGHT SIDE MUST BE ESPECIALLY STRONG AS THE TOP ARM RESISTS THE POLE. Sorry about the caps.

However if the left hand is correctly positioned on the pole - the left elbow will be outside the line of the pole so that the left arm is now in a flexed and slightly weak position to resiSt the shock of the hit . So as the chest is driven up 'through' the opening shoulders, the left arm is unable to resist the forces involved and the left hand and arm - steel elastic - will be driven back over the head and the pole is now loaded by the top arm.
The advantge of this dynamic flexing is that now the athlete can swing around the hands and put more energy into the vaulter/pole system.

Check out the film and it is clear - then of course as the body swings to the chord off the pole the centripital forces of that movement continuue to force the pole to flex.

Thats it folks. Take it or leave it.

[vault3rb0y]

At the instant the tip of the pole hits the box, BOTH hands should be driving up through the pole as a result of the whole body being driven up at take off.

Maybe i just didnt explain it well, or you didnt understand me well, but this is exactly what i tried to describe by saying the following.

So i try to keep my top hand right over my shoulder, like said above, then as soon as i leave the ground and the tip is in the box, my bottom arm comes up and above my head."

maybe a better description would have been, as i take my last three steps, my hands come up continuously so that they are as high as they can be by the time i plant. But i cant have my bottom hand fully over my head at the plant, because the pole would be too high above the box. Therefore i keep my bottom arm as high as it can be, slightly out front at the plant. Then as soon as the pole cant come out of the box (as a result of my bottom hand pressing up) i press both hands up.

I dont believe i have a late plant, but here a video from a few months back that you can talk about my hands in if you like.

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/Subculture/Track%20and%20Field/Morrys/October%20and%20november%20jumping/?action=view&current=shortrunnov06.flv
Have a good one!

[BethelPV]

Watching the video, I do believe you plant late. Your top hand is not fully extended until the pole forces it to be after it hits the back of the box. So not only is it late, but you seem under as well.

Disclaimer: I don't do it perfect myself, as I know that I have a late plant sometimes as well and have not even come close to having a free takeoff from my full approach. That is just what I saw in the video when i paused it...

Zachmo

[ladyvolspvcoach]

Bravo, Alan! do it just like that!!!! Actually my question was to stimulate a discussion about the plant. Most of the folk I see start with an incorrect method of holding the pole at the start of the run. Then they drop the pole way too late and force the tip down by thrusting their right hand up. Actually, there is a correct way to hold the pole that says if the fingers of your left (bottom) hand are wrapped around the pole and your left elbow is away from your side and sticking up in the air then you are holding the pole in the weakest possible position in order to plant properly! Your elbow should be close or tight against your left side and the thumb and finger of your left hand should be pointed up along the pole. The plant should be initiated with the left hand moving straight out away from the body and not extending above the forehead. The right hand simply follows the tip of the pole infront of and along side of the right side. It is essentially passive. BECAUSE any sudden movement of your top hand (things above the waist) WILL result in a reaction below the waist (read over stride). Therefore the left hand initiates the plant when the pole is gripped properly. How can you tell if the pole is gripped properly? You will not see elbows flopping or pumping up and down as they run up!!