what different models are out there

[baggettpv]

Let's look at the Free takeoff in another way...IF the pole contacts the back of the box when the foot is leaving the ground with a full extension in the jumping action, then the 5'9" vaulter is then a 6' vaulter compared to one that the pole contacts the box while they are flat footed.
All activities leading up to a bending pole shall be based on this skill....
Hows that?

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

[Neo Vaulter]

The debate about the Petrov model, and pole vault models in general has been going on for some time.

Although I've read some of the threads here and there, I've always avoided joining the discussions about technical models because we never used a model when I was pole vaulting. We just trained our butts off and gave it our best guess. The problem was, for every good guess, I would often make a bad one.

The way I see it, a pole vaulter without an understanding of the Petrov model is a vaulter who is guessing and is in a perpetual state of trying to "figure out" if he or she is training and vaulting the right way.

Whereas, a pole vaulter who gains an understanding of the Petrov model as explained in Beginner to Bubka, has an understanding of how to vault the correct way, and can spend less time on trying to "figure it out", and more time on getting better at the sport and having more fun.

Alan Launder has already figured it out for you. All you need to do is get your hands on the book, take some time to learn the model, incorporate it into your training program, and give yourself a chance to reach your full pole vault potential.

[SlickVT]

1. Maybe I will borrow a copy of BTB and get back to you.
2. I wasn't saying that the Petrov model is not the best out there. I was saying you can't say that it will be the best model forever, because the sport can and will change. If nothing else, advances in materials are being made every day. At the time of bamboo, Dutch Warmerdam's technique was probably defended as the absolute best to the death by persistant followers.

I have to agree with you that the Petrov model is the best out there RIGHT NOW. But no one can tell the future.

As for the "overly clever" comment, I was just trying to make my point in an outside-the-box kind of way. Much like a good pedagogist would.

[PV4Free]

What i'm curious to know is what will be the next evolution in technology that will enable vaulters to jump higher. The invention of flexible fiberglass poles was a quantum leap forward in the sport which led to the Petrov model which seems to be regarded as the consumate method. Until there is another great paradigm shift in the technology that is employed in pole vaulting, the Petrov model will remain tops, but no one can be sure what new materials will be invented that will allow for an entirely different approach and even greater heights.

[ashcraftpv]

maybe Laerton will start making poles again.

[achtungpv]

maybe Laerton will start making poles again.

Those prototype Kevlar poles were awesome. Too bad Jan ended up in a Thai prison.

[master]

... At the time of bamboo, Dutch Warmerdam's technique was probably defended as the absolute best to the death by persistant followers. ...

I've heard it said that Petrov attributes many aspects of his model to Dutch Warmerdam.

- master

[SlickVT]

In all fairness, I agree that the Petrov model is the absolute best, and not knowing at the time, I have been trying to achieve all the different aspects of the jump since I started taking vaulting seriously a few years ago.

Just because I try to spark some "bigger picture" thought doesn't mean I disagree.

Good talk.

[altius]

SlickVT - There IS one possibility of improving on the Petrov technical model - but you would need the speed and long jumping ability of a Carl Lewis and the gymnastic ability of an Olympic medallist in all round gymnastics to employ it. However to discover what that is you must first have a thorough understanding of the Petrov model. A hint - Dima Markov almost gets it but not quite.

[Tim McMichael]

There are three methods that have worked for various athletes. They are the drive vault, the double leg swing, and the Petrov model.

Drive vaults are typified by a strong bottom arm, a long trail leg, and a tuck. Look at Vigneron, Dial, Buckingham, Stevenson, Burgess, and Pryek as examples. For a less successful, yet perhaps the most extreme example, you can see my vault on the media page of this site.

The double leg swing is typified by a lead knee that begins relatively low and then drops till it lines up with the angle of the top arm. It is close to the level of the trail leg immediately after takeoff with very little seperation between the knees. The left arm usually folds into an acute angle as the vaulter drives off the ground. Olson and Bell are great examples of this method from the past. Yrushenko, Lobinger, and Strutz use this method now. Caroline Strutz is the most extreme example of this technique. Almost all of the great bamboo and aluminum pole vaulters double legged it.

The best example of the Petrov model is, of course, Bubka, but you can see the same principles at work in Isinbajeva's jump. She may even be better at it than Bubka. Tarpening also used this method in the 80's and 90's. The technical aspects of this model have been explicated numerous times on this board.

Then there are the uniques and the hybrids. I'm not sure what Dragila is doing, and Markov combines a Petrov takeoff with a double leg swing. In Dragila's case, no one has ever begun a plant with the pole tip still so high in the air. This influences everything that happens after that.

The level of difficulty to learn and athleticism required to execute these models is reflected in the number of vaulters who use them: the double leg is easiest, followed by the drive vault and the Petrov model.

With the exception of the several of the athletes from 80's and 90's, most of the vaulters I have mentioned can be seen on stabhochsprung.com

[Tim McMichael]

that is the way that most people describe them as either swing or power. i am still curious if someone can give a good explaination of the the power model

See Texas pole vault manifesto!

I could not disagree more. This is not a good explanation of the power vault. Look at Paul Burgess and you will appreciate this fact.

[Tim McMichael]

QUOTE "i think that maybe we need to get a discussion on how to use the power vaulter model and maybe hear form peopel that have had luck with a fusion of the two as opposed to just hearing about the petrov model." QUOTE.

I repeat - there is only one technical model which can be supported by biomechanical analysis. If you want to become a better vaulter, study the Petrov/Bubka model and dont waste your time in pointless discussion of possible alternatives. You can begin the process now or you can continue to waste your time and stand still as a vaulter. Your choice.

Here I have to strongly disagree. I remain agnostic on which is best, but other methods can be explained and analyzed through physics and biomechanics. G.K. Chesterton once said, “if you do not understand a man you cannot crush him. And if you do understand him, very probably you will not.â€Â