Trying the Petrov Thing

[Tim McMichael]

Here is my third practice of the year.

http://www.treemo.com/users/tmcmicha/channel/item/28076

I did two, then a meet, then this one. In hindsight, black was not the best color to wear for videoing in this place. You can pretty much only tell where I am at by my shoes and head.

I am running from eight total steps, gripping 12' on a 14' 160. I weigh 152.

I am trying to really get tall at the takeoff by letting the tip fall in for the last three steps and keeping my hands moving up. This is so I can keep my hips moving up the pole. Since I was a tuck and shooter, I am interested to know what the Petrov model people think about this jump. I am trying to implement more of that model in my jump. Ignore the insane yell. I have been doing that on top of most of my jumps for a while now without meaning to.

[ADTF Academy]

Not a bad start to switching over. Its hard not to tuck those darn legs after you have been doing it for so long. Right Zachmo!!!


By the way how old are those pits.

[Tim McMichael]

By the way how old are those pits.

Very

[KYLE ELLIS]

i think there is more to the tuck than what meets the eye. i think if you tuck it is a result of a lower takeoff angle and keeping your hips under your shoulders in the "drive phase". i think to be able to jump without much of a tuck you need a high angle takeoff and get on you back earlier. i have been jumping up more at takeoff but because eye keep my eye sight down or level it looks like im still trying to drive the crap out of it eve though im not. so i think your eyesight also has something to do with if you tuck or not.

[altius]

Quote" so i think your eyesight also has something to do with if you tuck or not. "Unquote.

Keep this comment in mind as you consider the following thoughts - although I have to say Tim, I wish you had posted this in the coaches forum! And the black gear does not help.

So first take on board the notion that "Perfection does not come from doing extraordinary things --- it comes from doing simple things extraordinarily well".

It is then possible to understand that although what Bubka did seems extraordinary, it was not - his method was based on doing many simple things extraordinarily well! So for example he did not look down or even horizontally at and after take off - he looked forward AND UP - this enabled him to drive his chest up through his opening shoulders - this in turn prestretched the muscles from sternum to the hips and on to the knee of the left leg - this in turn enabled him to execute a long whipping swing around the hands - this in turn enabled him to put immense energy into the vaulter/pole system - this energy in turn allowed him to stay long as he inverted - AND it enabled him to swing his COM up alongside the pole in position for the next major energy input. Take a look at his 601 jump in Athens and you will see all of this.

If you dont do those early things well, you do not have the energy in the system so you cant stay long and get on top of the pole - you are forced to tuck and rock back under the pole.

So what has the original quote got to do with anything - well it ties in with the obvious fact that Tim is looking forward after take off. This prevents his head from moving up and through the arms and makes it difficult for him to set up a situation where the chest is pressed up and ahead of the hips -which in turn are not pressing ahead of the trail leg as actively as they could.

Just stand there and move your head in the way I suggest and notice the difference in the body posture and prestretch. Better still get on a high bar with someone pushing your shoulders up though the arms - try the different head positions and see what you feel.

If anyone wants to comment on this they are obviously free to - but please make sure you read it very carefully and think about it even more carefully before you respond. For many it will involve a paradigm shift in thinking and that aint easy for any of us. But I assure you it will be worth the effort. It is one of the 'secrets' of the Petrov model.

All of that said - it is still a pretty good effort for an 'older' man!

[htheodore]

Very informative, helpful, educational. Thanks

[KYLE ELLIS]

being one who keeps my eye sight down or level at takeoff im not siding with one or the other. i think there are benefits from looking slightly up at the bar but i do think there are benefits from keeping the eyesight level. altius you definately know the petrov model and stated all the benefits from looking up. i would state why keeping a level eyesight can benefit the energy conservation during a jump but i will let tim post on that since he is much better with words and is who taught me alot of what i know about the polevault.

[vault3rb0y]

he looked forward AND UP - this enabled him to drive his chest up through his opening shoulders - this in turn prestretched the muscles from sternum to the hips and on to the knee of the left leg - this in turn enabled him to execute a long whipping swing around the hands -

So altius if i understand correctly, looking forward and up simply triggers reflexes in your shoulders, then sternum, then hips, and so on, in order to keep to chest up and set up for a long aggressive swing. So as long as you are doing these things, is it still important to look out and up? I am just curious as to whether you would still instruct a vaulter to look more up when they vault if they are already setting themselves up for a long swing. Also, do you think the head position is a result of good posture, or is good posture a result of head position?

I am only pestering you because i find the way the body responds to different positions very interesting. I am just curious to the different reflexes that result from different motions, so please excuse my slightly off-topic questions .

[ADTF Academy]

First off Altius never said look at the bar as Kyle Ellis quoted incorrectly. He said look up and forward.

he looked forward AND UP - this enabled him to drive his chest up through his opening shoulders - this in turn prestretched the muscles from sternum to the hips and on to the knee of the left leg - this in turn enabled him to execute a long whipping swing around the hands -

I am only pestering you because i find the way the body responds to different positions very interesting. I am just curious to the different reflexes that result from different motions, so please excuse my slightly off-topic questions .

My two cents whatever they may or may not be beneficial is that with the head position level or down it has nothing directly to do with the swing but indirectly. Everything is progressive so it helps set up a more powerful swing.

What I think Alitus is talking about and how I coach it is that this slight up and forward position of the eyes positions the flight path of the body in that direction. This allows the upperward and in direction of the chest to cause the stretch relex in the upper body to set up a more powerful swing to create the angular momentum to swing to inversion.

With the eye/head in a down position the body is directed in that direction. Straight in or worst yet down. You can go to far up though. The quote was up and forward not up and throwing head back.



As far as the tuck and shoot goes. Part of it is lack of angular momentum to get there. I personally feel the other part is the over rocking back or over pulling of the legs past your hands. You must learn to direct the legs in the correct path. This may seem tough but many have done it. The speed and power of this is dependent on your plant and takeoff mechanics as talked about by Altius.

Just because your swing is long and you think fast doesn't mean it can't be improved. Angular momentum aids in extension through inversion and flyaway. The more you have the greater your flyaway can be. Find ways to improve it. Don't just settle cause you think your doing it right.

[KYLE ELLIS]

well i just assumed since the bar is up and infront of you thats probably were their eyesight goes to. and with the exception of bubka thats were most of the people using the petrov model look like they are looking. everyone finds the bar at some point in their jump. whether its intentional or not. but my point is if your looking forward and up your gonna be loooking in the direction of the bar so i figure they probably see the bar.

[altius]

Dont get distracted - the eyes look where the head and shoulders are going - forward and up. It is the prestretch that matters. Take a look at video of Bubka or Isinbyeva. She has not got it right yet, at and immediately after take off, but she makes up for it with the great second phase - which is set up bu her great pre stretch position before she starts the left leg swinging forward. Wish i could post some stills to illustrate this point - but you all have access to video anyway.

[Robert schmitt]

It was difficult but I finally got the video paused at the moment your take take off foot was rolling onto the ball but still on the ground (unless I'm haullucinating do to the black runway and shoes) then disregard the following. At this moment the pole is already significantly bent (about two feetish) from a line drawn from the top to tip of the pole. This makes it pretty difficult to time up with the pole with out (compensating) tucking and shooting. Just the way you body reacted in the air and where you ended up timing up with the pole looked to me like your take off was under. which is why I spent so much time triing to pause it. This makes it pretty difficult to vault the way you are tying to learn.

I my self have only had a hand full of decent vaults trying to vault this way. But when I can they are big and effortless and worth the years of frustration.