Lonestar and Vitali,

[EIUvltr]

That is actually not a very productive way of thinking, and I believe it has a lot to do with why our women are no longer medal threats internationally.

Wait for Jenn Stuczynski to get a hold of one, we'll take back the crown

[rainbowgirl28]

That is actually not a very productive way of thinking, and I believe it has a lot to do with why our women are no longer medal threats internationally.

Wait for Jenn Stuczynski to get a hold of one, we'll take back the crown

Does having 1 woman who is a potential medal threat (and off the top of my head there are at least 5 or 6 women jumping right now with a higher PR) make us successful? On the men's side we have several men every year who are legit threats to medal at any major championships every year. On the women's side the top end is a lot more spread out, and we just aren't getting women into that top echelon.

Maybe we need to be rephrasing these sentences into "American MEN produce at the Olympic level" and "American MEN must be doing something right."

[MightyMouse]

I am gonna have to agree with vaulterboy here.

I cannot stand coming on here to constantly read about people outside the US who come onto this US website and belittle the American method of teaching, vaulting, thinking, breathing, eating, or whatever else they are on their high horse for.

Bottom line is, belittle it all you want, Americans produce at the Olympic level. We constantly have a higher percentage per population in the top 100 in the world, and are constantly winning or coming close to winning the WC's.

Granted, Petrov is a wonderful coach, I cannot argue with that. The level of coaching that he has brought to the vault has been superb, as have all of his athletes results.

HOWEVER, if certain people on here would open their minds a little bit and maybe try and see a new perspective and stop belittling everything that isn't in certain books, maybe more productive discussions and developments and alot less posts like this would occur.

In conclusion, I am a firm believer in Petrov's acceleration/high knees running style. It is significantly more consistent and brings the most speed through the last 10 meters of the run. However, I am an American and am tired of being told that the US methods, which have produced the last two GOLD and SILVER medalists are just downright wrong.

Ask Gibilisco and Tarasov what they think of the US approach to vaulting...

I think debates on technical models should be above American vs European, and be about mathematical/physics models.

Although Americans have produced the best vaulters as of late, does not mean they employ the best model, and neither does the fact that bubka jumped 6.14 mean he uses the best model either.

Also I think this idea of an "American way of vaulting" is alot less unified than one might think.

[ADTF Academy]

boo

[altius]

Quote "I cannot stand coming on here to constantly read about people outside the US who come onto this US website and belittle the American method of teaching, vaulting, thinking, breathing, eating, or whatever else they are on their high horse for."Unquote.

Well SlickVT - apart from a microbrewery in Slippery Rock, Pa., I dont think it is possible to find decent beer in the USA.



Remember I did say 1% got it right - and I never mentioned an American style! But have a good look at - or even just listen to - the run up patterns of vaulters in your area, region, State etc and then come back and tell me that they employ the rhythmic structure and technical pattern Petrov advocates - indeed has been advocating for over twenty years - ditto agapit. At the present time Feofanova provides the best model of a properly structured run up -although I suspect that Isinbyeva will soon have improved hers to match it.

Jan has done amazing things in a very short time -a great credit to her coach. But it may be that she will have to refine elements of her technique - including her run up - if she is to move to the next level. I am sure that Rick Suhr will have taken note of what he saw on the circuit this summer and they will already be making adjustments.

Not quite sure why you mention Tarasov and Gibilisco - both World Champions and both used the Petrov model. However you might want to talk to Nick Hysong and Tim Mack to see if there were any 'foreign' influences in their development.


Patriotism is great but xenophobia and parochialism may blind folk to reality.

[vault3rb0y]

From the petrov model you described, my coach is at least 1 coach who teaches that from 18 steps. But it is very hard to generalize American model European Model, etc... because every coach teaches in slightly different ways. It would be more accurate to call out the specific coaches from America that arent doing it right, but that would be inappropriate.

With my initial statement that Americans must be doing something right, it was just meant to defend the states and the way we vault. I understand we might not be perfect and neither are you, fact is we should share these models constructively as i am sure petrov did, rather than try to use them as leverage in saying one country is superior in pole vaulting to another.... let that be determined every 4 years. I support your right to say "Americans generally dont do this right" but it seems some people butcher that into our heads time after time and post after post, and thats not constructive criticism, thats just mean. .

[altius]

Read the posts and tell me where I tried " to use them as leverage in saying one country is superior in pole vaulting to another". Like a lot of people on PVP - including SWMBO herself - I am interested in helping coaches and athletes -anywhere in the world - to better understand the vault. The key point - which has been mentioned again and again on pvp - is that there are infinitely more vaulters in the USA who need good coaches, than is the case in other parts of the world. The reasons for this have also been discussed on PVP in the past so do not need to be gone over again.

The objective of PVP -and correct me if i am wrong - is not simply to act as a chat site - but to actually try and provide information, knowledge and even some wisdom for athletes who are looking for those things. My reference to lonesar - who I met this summer at The Woodlands and petrov -who I will be seeing again in about three weeks - was an attempt to open up discussion on a major weakness I observed at six different camps this year in the USA -but which is something i have been seeing for the last seven years as I have visited the US and watched vaulters there.

[OUvaulterUSAF]

in college myself and everyother vaulter on the team just brought it down the runway--fast as possible. in fact OU was known for having super fast vaulters.

after college, between 2003 - 2005 (i call it my blue period in my vault career) I tried the, suppose I'll call it 'tempo running', on the runway which is referenced in this thread. didn't do anything for me. i couldn't get in on poles, i was very inconsistent.

now i'm back to my old form in college, i do take it easy out of the back with the first step but other than that it's pat...patppppppppppppppuhpat (so to speak). 99% of the time my step is on or slightly outside. if that's the american style well, i'm 100% american and proud of it.

bottomline, i think there's different ways to skin a cat and i'm very open minded to all but i know what works for me.

[SlickVT]

Remember I did say 1% got it right - and I never mentioned an American style! But have a good look at - or even just listen to - the run up patterns of vaulters in your area, region, State etc and then come back and tell me that they employ the rhythmic structure and technical pattern Petrov advocates - indeed has been advocating for over twenty years - ditto agapit.

altius, This is true, most Americans do not follow the Petrov model, but I would think that someone with such a knowlege of pedagogy would realize that just because it is different from one person's (Petrov) teachings, that doesn't make it necessarily incorrect.

As I mentioned before, I do not come flying out of the back of my run, and I agree with the running model that Petrov teaches, but I also know (in my obvious lack of pole vault knowlege) that the American pah pah pah running style works for some people. Not me, but some.

The objective of PVP -and correct me if i am wrong - is not simply to act as a chat site - but to actually try and provide information, knowledge and even some wisdom for athletes who are looking for those things.

And yes, pole vault power is a place to provide information and knowlege. Believe it or not, some people may think or believe something different than you. They should and do have the right to say and ask questions without wondering if they are going to get insulted because they are not as educated. Despite what smart remark I am going to hear back from this post, that is, in fact, what happens most of the time.

You have to keep in mind that there are alot of beginner vaulters on here. When they ask a question or say soemthing, tearing them down because they do not own a copy of BTB or because they are following bad coaching, which most of the time is the only coaching available, is going to do nothing but discourage them.

A little humility and some understanding into some people's knowlege and experience level on here can go a long way.

Sorry so coarse. Thanks.

[altius]

"When they ask a question ................., tearing them down."

Give me an example of where - in response to a question - I have 'torn someone -a beginner - down". Another myth. This series of posts started with me noting comments from Kris Allisons visit with Petrov. It escalated as one person took the p--- about the way in which Petrov had expressed the rhythm of the run and as others leaped in to defend the honour of American pole vaulting - as they invariably do. But I notice that no one responded to the implication that both Nick Hysong and Tim Mack may have had help/advice from foreign sources. Why was that? Incidentally Lojo definitely did!

Just remember I have seen thousands of US vaulters over the past seven?eight? years - including those elite vaulters competing on the stage at Reno as well as athletes at world youths and juniors, so I do have some idea of where you are coming from.

Now I will heed some great advice from the old crafty one. Earlier this year at Columbia SC he taught me the value of three great American phrases "Waddever", "Let it go", "Move on".

However just a final note - on November 15th I head to Formia for ten days with Petrov and Isinbyeva. I will be joined by my good friend Jeremy Bailey from BYU and two of his athletes as well as a French vaulter - who has jumped 5.70 using the French model but wants to change to the Petrov model. Will readers be interested in what we might learn there? On the basis of the response to this topic I trust you will understand when I say "I doubt it".

[saraf]

Remember I did say 1% got it right - and I never mentioned an American style! But have a good look at - or even just listen to - the run up patterns of vaulters in your area, region, State etc and then come back and tell me that they employ the rhythmic structure and technical pattern Petrov advocates - indeed has been advocating for over twenty years - ditto agapit.

altius, This is true, most Americans do not follow the Petrov model, but I would think that someone with such a knowlege of pedagogy would realize that just because it is different from one person's (Petrov) teachings, that doesn't make it necessarily incorrect.

As I mentioned before, I do not come flying out of the back of my run, and I agree with the running model that Petrov teaches, but I also know (in my obvious lack of pole vault knowlege) that the American pah pah pah running style works for some people. Not me, but some.

The objective of PVP -and correct me if i am wrong - is not simply to act as a chat site - but to actually try and provide information, knowledge and even some wisdom for athletes who are looking for those things.

And yes, pole vault power is a place to provide information and knowlege. Believe it or not, some people may think or believe something different than you. They should and do have the right to say and ask questions without wondering if they are going to get insulted because they are not as educated. Despite what smart remark I am going to hear back from this post, that is, in fact, what happens most of the time.

You have to keep in mind that there are alot of beginner vaulters on here. When they ask a question or say soemthing, tearing them down because they do not own a copy of BTB or because they are following bad coaching, which most of the time is the only coaching available, is going to do nothing but discourage them.

A little humility and some understanding into some people's knowlege and experience level on here can go a long way.

Sorry so coarse. Thanks.

YEA bing. I miss you

[VTechVaulter]

Off the top of my head i cant really think of any elite vaulters that dont try to be tall with good knee drive out of the back. once again i think bubka probably is the best to look at for this. you can see clearly defined phases of the run (with gradual transitions mind you). i actually think on the american side, toby has a great accelerated run, i think it gets missed because of the little stutter steps he takes in the beginning.

EDIT... brad walker... he just flies out of the back. but he still does a good stop of being quick and the end and still seems pretty consistant. but other than him, most people tend to build well.

and on a side not. saraf 8 days til jonesboro!!!