Pole Vault Manifesto

[agapit]

I would like to ask you a few questions and for you to answer them with less than 10lines of text:

1. When should swing begin and why?
2. How could one increase the speed of the swing and generate more energy at the same time?
3. Does swing need to be shortened at the hips (famous L position) and why?

Answering these questions may help some to come to the realization.

[fx]

Tim, in your drawing you show the direction the vaulter is pulling down on the pole as being opposite to the direction that the pole is pushing against the vaulter. makes sense. You also say the pull should come from the lat and the deltoid (right), so I'm assuming that the arms stay straight. Then, performing this same motion without a pole, would the action look like this, if moving the whole shoulder joint lower on the body is possible:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18716274530.jpg&s=f10

If this is actually how it is supposed to be, then I am very confused.

Agapit- I dont think your questions are directed at me, but lemme take a shot.

1.) The swing begins when the takeoff ends (the body is fully extended and stretched) and ensures that energy is still being added into the system.

2.) Increasing the speed of the swing is the same thing as generating more energy, because there is greater kinetic energy which will be stored in the pole as potential energy. The row/pull does this i guess?

3.) The swing does need to be shortened at the hips, because it takes too much energy to move a fully extended body from horizontal to vertical.

8 lines of actual answer I hope thats good

[rodeojoe74]

1. When should swing begin and why?

Immediately after a free take off, because anything else is wasting time and absorbing energy.

2. How could one increase the speed of the swing and generate more energy at the same time?

By using the entire body (pulling with the arms) to execute the move, which will add energy to the system.


3. Does swing need to be shortened at the hips (famous L position) and why?

Yes, but very late, as late as possible. It needs to be shortened to save time and place the vaulter in a position to better exploit stored energy with an extension.

[agapit]

2.) Increasing the speed of the swing is the same thing as generating more energy, because there is greater kinetic energy which will be stored in the pole as potential energy. The row/pull does this i guess?

3.) The swing does need to be shortened at the hips, because it takes too much energy to move a fully extended body from horizontal to vertical.

8 lines of actual answer I hope thats good

**Faster and shorter swing does not necessarily generates more energy than slower but longer swing

***So, you are saying that if you are strong enough to swing with the straight body in the limited time (under 1.3sec) you should swing with the straight body?

[agapit]

3. Does swing need to be shortened at the hips (famous L position) and why?

Yes, but very late, as late as possible. It needs to be shortened to save time and place the vaulter in a position to better exploit stored energy with an extension.

***You never answered why the swing should be shortened.

[BethelPV]

Heres my two cents...

1. The swing should begin as soon as your body tells you to begin it; after the takeoff. Those on shorter poles it will begin sooner than those on longer poles and it all depends on how well you set up your swing with an effective takeoff...

2. Increase the speed of the swing by improving your plant and setting up for it better. Do not allow a break in your motion, make it fluid, and by increasing the speed of a longer swing, more energy is put into the pole.

3. Yes the L position is something that most everyone hits, even Bubka, but no it is not necessary if you can swing straight to inversion! Why waste the energy of coming into the L if you can swing to and stay in inversion? Its a waste of time and energy!

Sorry it was a little longer than 10 lines, but thats the shortest I could do it... lol

Just my thoughts on the swing!

Zachmo

[rodeojoe74]

Agapit wrote:
[***You never answered why the swing should be shortened.]

It speeds up the process. A fully extended swing to inversion would be slow. Also, energy would be lost and the pole would leave the vaulter behind once the body reached horizontal. Thirdly, the extension is a powerful move which would not be possible without a shortened swing.[/quote]

[agapit]

Agapit wrote:
[***You never answered why the swing should be shortened.]

It speeds up the process. A fully extended swing to inversion would be slow.

not slow, slower. slower does not mean less energy.

Also, energy would be lost

( how would it be lost?)

and the pole would leave the vaulter behind

(?)

once the body reached horizontal. Thirdly, the extension is a powerful move which would not be possible without a shortened swing.

(what extension? does a gymnast have an extension on the ring swing?)

[agapit]

Heres my two cents...

1. The swing should begin as soon as your body tells you to begin it; after the takeoff. Those on shorter poles it will begin sooner than those on longer poles and it all depends on how well you set up your swing with an effective takeoff...

you said after takeoff and than said that on the longer poles it will start later, so which is it?

2. Increase the speed of the swing by improving your plant and setting up for it better. Do not allow a break in your motion, make it fluid, and by increasing the speed of a longer swing, more energy is put into the pole.

which muscles increase speed of the swing?

3. Yes the L position is something that most everyone hits, even Bubka, but no it is not necessary if you can swing straight to inversion! Why waste the energy of coming into the L if you can swing to and stay in inversion? Its a waste of time and energy!

good point

[BethelPV]

What I meant is that the swing starts immediatly after the takeoff has been completely finished and the vaulter has reached the point of most elasticity and the body reacts causing the vaulter to swing. This happens sooner on shorter poles than on larger poles because the so called "pocket" or driving of the takeoff has more room on the longer poles. A vaulter will reach that point a lot sooner on a 14 foot pole than they will on a 5 meter pole.

Secondly, your core muscles are probably the biggest factor in increasing swing speed. If you can tighten your core and hold your body as rigid as possible throughout the entire swing, your body will whip at the top, causing you to reach your desired position much faster than if you fold at the waste and try and tuck and shoot. This is why you do not necessarily have to hit the L position if you can amass the energy needed to swing straight to verticle without any break. Is it possible, probably by someone, but I haven't seen it yet. So in essence, the core muslcles are what I believe to be the best muscles to improve the swing.

Zachmo

[agapit]

What I meant is that the swing starts immediatly after the takeoff has been completely finished and the vaulter has reached the point of most elasticity and the body reacts causing the vaulter to swing. This happens sooner on shorter poles than on larger poles because the so called "pocket" or driving of the takeoff has more room on the longer poles. A vaulter will reach that point a lot sooner on a 14 foot pole than they will on a 5 meter pole.

So, you are saying that you do not complete takeoff on the shorter poles for the swing to start right after takeoff is complete? Or you saying that on the longer poles the takeoff really does not start after the takeoff is complete, but starts with some kind of delay?

Secondly, your core muscles are probably the biggest factor in increasing swing speed. If you can tighten your core and hold your body as rigid as possible throughout the entire swing, your body will whip at the top, causing you to reach your desired position much faster than if you fold at the waste and try and tuck and shoot. This is why you do not necessarily have to hit the L position if you can amass the energy needed to swing straight to verticle without any break. Is it possible, probably by someone, but I haven't seen it yet. So in essence, the core muslcles are what I believe to be the best muscles to improve the swing.

Zachmo

by core muscles you mean abs? The only way your abs can increase speed of your swing if you contruct your abs.

[BethelPV]

Lets see if i can be more clear this time

On shorter poles the takeoff does not take as long to complete as it does on longer poles. When you take off on lets say a 13 foot pole, can you drive your chest as far forward as you can and still manage to swing as efficiently and effortlessly as you could on a 16'9" pole? I highly doubt that your chest will drive as much on that 13' pole, thus causing less time to finish the takeoff on this 13' pole. This causes the timing of the swing to be altered slightly between these differences in poles.

Yes your abs are a major portion of increasing your swing, but by core I meant abs (upper, lower, and side), back, and glute. Just like you said, if you contract these as your begin your swing, your swing will be much longer and much more powerful, causing a whipping action in the end which will speed up your swing in the long run.

This is just what I believe to be true, not saying that I am totally right or wrong, but I am trying my best to learn as much possible about the vault as well. Thank you for pushing me to think about this more and more agapit, I appreciate what you are doing with this post!

Zachmo