Bubka Heresy 2

[Tim McMichael]

I guess what I am trying to point out is that he did shorten his pendulum in the last half of his swing. Whether it is a tuck or a pike is not as important as the fact that it is not a rigidly straight body. I am trying to counter the idea that Bubka, or anyone else, can or should swing through the shoulders with no bend at the hips or the knees. At least down here in Oklahoma, I see a lot of vaulters trying to do just that, and I think it is killing their jumps.

[master]

I am trying to counter the idea that Bubka, or anyone else, can or should swing through the shoulders with no bend at the hips or the knees.

I agree that Bubka was not trying to swing with a straight body, only pivoting at the shoulders. What I was taught by Alan Launder is the trail leg is first left long, straight and with a pointed toe at the take off (finishing the take off). The consciously energetic swing starts from that body position at a time such that the leg is inline with the body and upper arm when the body passes the chord of the pole. That happens when the body is at about a 45 degree angle with the ground. Then the leg motion is continued by allowing the body to bend at the waist, while the upper body still hangs straight through the shoulder. At some point after bending at the waist begins, ideally you would tighten muscles such that there would not be any more bending at the waist and the momentum created by this swing would then be applied to the entire body and legs. This is when the pivoting around the shoulders should occur. As the feet reach the point of being at or beyond (runway side of) the top hand, the hip thrust and shoulder drop is done to get the vaulter completely inverted.

For those readers who may not know this, the reason I describe what Alan taught is that he learned this from Vitali Petrov, Bubka's coach.

- master

[KYLE ELLIS]

i see it everywere not just in oklahoma. i think it is far more benificial to shorten your radius but thats just my opinion.

[rodeojoe74]

I'll take a stab at describing Bubka's action on the pole. I would call it a pike rather than a tuck, but it is definitely not a straight pendulum from shoulder to ankle all the way to inversion. I think the "pike" like Bubka does is the preferred goal because it creates more energy in the vaulter/pole system, and then it utilizes the stored energy better. The tuck and shoot method seems inferior to me for 2 reasons: 1) it wastes time and therefore energy (you should either store energy or use it for height), 2) it seems to break the vault down into phases instead of creating a continuous chain. These two reasons are really very closely related. I'll explain them a little further. I have studied many videos of tuck and shooters where the pole begins to recoil and the vaulter travels vertically while he/she is tucking and beginning to shoot. Then when the vaulter is in the middle of the shoot, he slows down the pole's recoil. When a vaulter pikes, he is storing energy for a longer period of time, and the transfer between storing energy and using energy is smoother and quicker. Also, extending from the pike (rather than tuck and shoot) the pole recoils and the vaulter extends TOGETHER/SIMULTANEOUSLY allowing the system to accelerate continuously. Perhaps a biomechanist could place these thoughts into better words, but this is my best stab.

PS Anyone out there going to Indy tomorrow?

[Soar Like an Eagle]

I guess what I am trying to point out is that he did shorten his pendulum in the last half of his swing. Whether it is a tuck or a pike is not as important as the fact that it is not a rigidly straight body. I am trying to counter the idea that Bubka, or anyone else, can or should swing through the shoulders with no bend at the hips or the knees. At least down here in Oklahoma, I see a lot of vaulters trying to do just that, and I think it is killing their jumps.

Tim

What did you and Joe Dial do? What did you visualize during your vault especially the swing phase?

[KYLE ELLIS]

tim and joe did a tuck and shoot especially because they kept their hips under their shoulders until the last moment, then they would shorten the levers swinging back fast as possible so they could still catch the pole . its like doing whatever possible to beat that big pole in, then doing whatever possible to get on top of the bend. its not a finess jump like swinging the straight leg straight. 2 reasons not to swing a straight trail leg, 1- have to get on your back faster, . 2- its harder to catch the pole, you have to be fast enough and a good enough athlete to do it succesfully.

and every one becomes passive between swing and extension to get in the right position to extend from. its when your top arm moves forward, till its at 90degree's, then the vaulter becomes active again.

[Tim McMichael]

The idea behind the technique that Joe and I used to swing was based on the physics of a pendulum. We reasoned that a pendulum could not lose energy by being shortened after it had reached its highest speed. With this in mind, we started a long, fast swing, and when it reached the point where you could draw a straight line from the top hand through to the foot of the trail leg, we tucked. The highest velocity of the swing is reached at the point when the body is in a straight line and pointing more or less at the box. Tucking after this only speeds up the rotation; it does not cost energy. This allowed us to stay behind the pole longer and keep our center of gravity lower during the fist part of the jump while still being able to catch up with the pole in the middle. We were able to achieve the same penetrating power as taller athletes because our trail legs traveled a longer distance and achieved a higher velocity in spite of our size, and our hips stayed lower longer, all of which added to penetration, pole speed, and grip height.

This is very different from a bad tuck where an athlete folds the left leg under without even starting a swing. This shortens the rotation, and the athlete is able to invert, but with no power. Vaulters who do this never reach the straight line position I have described. They jump on small poles because their swing - if you can call it that - hurts their penetration rather than helping it.

[Soar Like an Eagle]

The idea behind the technique that Joe and I used to swing was based on the physics of a pendulum. We reasoned that a pendulum could not lose energy by being shortened after it had reached its highest speed. With this in mind, we started a long, fast swing, and when it reached the point where you could draw a straight line from the top hand through to the foot of the trail leg, we tucked. It is at the point when the body is in a straight line and pointing more or less at the box that the highest velocity of the swing is reached. Tucking after this only speeds up the rotation. It does not cost energy. This allowed us to stay behind the pole longer and keep our center of gravity lower during the fist part of the jump while still being able to catch up with the pole in the middle. We were able to achieve the same penetrating power as taller athletes because our trail legs traveled a longer distance and achieved a higher velocity in spite of our size, and our hips stayed lower longer, all of which added to penetration, pole speed, and grip height.

This is very different from a bad tuck where an athlete folds the left leg under without even starting a swing. This shortens the rotation, and the athlete is able to invert, but with no power. Vaulters who do this never reach the straight line position I have described. They jump on small poles because their swing - if you can call it that - hurts their penetration rather than helping it.

Tim,

Thank you for the great information regarding you and Joe’s technique. This technique if done properly, allows a vaulter to jump on big poles and achieve a great push off. I think Vigneron (19’0â€Â

[rodeojoe74]

Tim McMichael wrote:

We were able to achieve the same penetrating power as taller athletes because our trail legs traveled a longer distance

Your post makes good sense in reference to shortening the pendulum and conserving energy. However, I question the quote above. How do you explain the "longer distance" if you are a shorter athlete and you shorten the pendulum?

Also, do you think if taller athletes did this, they would be able to have bigger grips and higher heights?

[Tim McMichael]

That statement does need some clarification. In my case, this technique allowed me to drive longer, which meant my trail leg went back a long way. It was still going back at the point when most everybody else had already started to swing. The distance I am referring to is the length between the maximum backward drive of the trail leg and the point of highest velocity of the swing. If you look at it on film, you will see that many very good vaulters have short swings when measured this way – especially the ones who double leg swing.

As to the second question, I saw Joe make 18’ 10â€Â

[KYLE ELLIS]

I think he meant that their trail legs came back further than most (tims came back almost parallel to the runway) so therefore they would a further distannce to travel. and yes i think if taller athletes did this they would jump higher. but they dont ever think of pushing beyond their limits beacause of their size. tim and joe and others had to create more force than most world class jumpers because they werent as big, strong and naturally as fast. no disrespect but tim was better technically than joe he just didnt have the horsepower that joe did, thats part of why joe jumped higher, but thats beside the point. plus i know if tim could of stayed healthy he would of jumped 5.80 'ish.

[rodeojoe74]

Tim, what kind of speed did you and Joe have?