Bubka Heresy One

[Carolina21]

Agapit,
Do you feel, all things being equal, Bubka, or anyone for that matter, would have been a more consistent and clean jumper if he had availible a pole that was the same flex but allowed for a higher grip vs. the pole he used during his jumps. Its seems anyone no matter how great their body awarness and strength would be able to clear any given bar more consistently with a slightly higher grip as opposed to a lower grip and a huge push off? When you start jumping on extemely stiff poles that rocket you off the top control becomes an issue and your form tends to become much more wild and out of control simply by virtue of the speed that an extremely short stiff pole uncoils, while a longer pole allows the vaulter seemingly more time and allows for more control to hit the positions that allow continous energy input. I guess what I and at least one other person want to know is when do you raise your grip, how does grip height scientifically figure into this model? Obvioulsy there are advantages to raising your grip otherwise Elite vaulters would jump on 15' 300lbs poles and have a push off of 5 feet or something. I guess what I feel is being left out is the correlation.

At what point does the pole become so stiff and the recoil so fast that it is actually counter-productive to the vault and won't allow the athlete enough control to take advantage of the energy return? Did Bubka miss out on some energy because his poles were so stiff or loose some control and consistentcy for this reason?

Grip height is such a big part of vaulting and has such a large impact on the way a pole uncoils and numerous other things but most vaulters seem to put little thought into grip height. I know when I jump, where I grip on the pole is certainly not thought out beyond one jump to the next, it is always a reaction to a previous jump. I think many vaulters would agree (when they really think about it) that where they grip on the pole is almost always reactionary. I would think to apply a proper model, grip height must also have intentions just as our technique should have intentions with every jump.

So what should our intention be with grip height? AT what point do you say OK I am getting an X inches push off, but I would probably be better to raise my grip 3-4 inches and only get an X - 4inch push off but be more consistent.

[ADTF Academy]

[quote="agapit"][quote="Tim McMichael"]The main discovery that Bubka did introduce was a vault without phases, just like a one single blow over the bar. That is where continuous chain concept comes from. If one should imitate Bubka’s form they are wasting time. It was a clunky form at best. However, if one should imitate the concept and approach to the jump, NO ONE HAD YET DONE IT BETTER THAN BUBKA! Not now, not in the past. Even still vaulters were not as focused on the “blowâ€Â

[Tim McMichael]

There are two main questions here: One comes from the observation that we can clear the same bar with widely different grips and asks which is better, lower or higher; the other deals with issues surrounding staying in line with the pole or using the arms at the top of the jump.

I can only give you some details from experience on this one. I spent about a month working on finding the right grip. I used the same pole from the same run and varied my grip height from 15’ to 15’10. I found that I could make the same bar from either grip. The difference was in consistency, and what I found was the opposite of what I expected. The lower grip was much more consistent. I could make the bar 8 times out of 10 with the low grip, and only 3 times out of ten with the high one. Instead of the higher grip giving more time to get things right, it gave more opportunities for things to go wrong. What went wrong often happened in the second part of the jump. I couldn’t get in position to catch the slower return. On the other hand, the tighter, faster vault from the lower grip seemed to set me up to create and receive power more efficiently. I had more power at the bottom to swing with, which put me in a better position at the top. It did not matter that I was moving much faster. It is also a lot more fun to get blasted up into the air than it is to ride a slow moving pole.

Staying in line with the pole on top of the jump is an essential element of good technique. The problem with an early extension is that it puts the vaulter in a position from which it is nearly impossible to use the arms effectively. From that position any movement with the arms will, as ADTF Academy has noted, separate the vaulter from the pole and result in a loss of energy. Bubka couldn’t have cared less about this problem. He was all about creating, power and his extension was one of the ways he did it. I believe that Bubka had a passive element to his jump; it occurred immediately after he extended; after this point the jump was effectively over and he merely rode the energy wave up and over the bar by staying very close to the pole as it went up. Sometimes he pulled hard with his left arm to add a little more power in a way that would not separate him from the pole.

Here is a question. If the extension puts a given amount of energy into the pole, and there must be a passive phase after an early extension anyway, what harm can there be in extending later and thus using the power of the arms more effectively through the top end? I know from experience that an effective use of the arms through the middle and top of the jump is worth about 4â€Â

[ADTF Academy]

[quote="Tim McMichael"]

Staying in line with the pole on top of the jump is an essential element of good technique. The problem with an early extension is that it puts the vaulter in a position from which it is nearly impossible to use the arms effectively. From that position any movement with the arms will, as ADTF Academy has noted, separate the vaulter from the pole and result in a loss of energy. Bubka couldn’t have cared less about this problem. He was all about creating, power and his extension was one of the ways he did it. I believe that Bubka had a passive element to his jump; it occurred immediately after he extended; after this point the jump was effectively over and he merely rode the energy wave up and over the bar by staying very close to the pole as it went up. Sometimes he pulled hard with his left arm to add a little more power in a way that would not separate him from the pole.

Here is a question. If the extension puts a given amount of energy into the pole, and there must be a passive phase after an early extension anyway, what harm can there be in extending later and thus using the power of the arms more effectively through the top end? I know from experience that an effective use of the arms through the middle and top of the jump is worth about 4â€Â

[OUvaulterUSAF]

I think this article does a pretty good job on explaining why applying pressure with the bottom hand helps the vaulter going into an extension.

http://pvei.com/fusion/readarticle.php?article_id=14

[Tim McMichael]

This subject has always fascinated me because of what I experienced when my technique was in its formative stages. I was coached mostly by Joe Dial and his father. Old Mr. Dial was something of a mad scientist when it came to the vault. He would tell you about the end of the world and your vault at the same time, all in cryptic biblical terms. He had almost no education, but he was a natural genius at physics and biomechanics. He developed a vault for Joe and me based on the fact that we were not tall enough to grip up there with the Tullys and Bells of the world. The focus was almost entirely on push off. It was definitely what you would call a tuck and shoot, but I saw Joe clear 18’10â€Â

[ADTF Academy]

The passive moment I am exploring comes after this move is made. All the vaulter can do is stay where they are and go for a ride. There is nowhere the body can move to and, therefore, no more action that can take place. This is why I call it passive. The reason Bubka had such wild top ends is that he extended so hard that often he arched his back causing his legs to fall away from the pole while his torso stayed glued to it. If you look at various jumps you will see that when this happened his legs progressively drifted to the side, forcing him to over rotate. Because he had reached a position rigid against the pole, there was nothing he could do with his arms, or any other part of his body, to regain his balance. The pull through the left arm did exactly what you described it doing for me. It shortened the point at which the pole was connected to the body creating more explosions when he needed it most.

You are also right in saying that any loss of connection to the pole caused by the arms will kill the power of the vault, but I think there is an element you are missing. It is true that the moment after the extension feels active, but this is because the pole is winning the power battle with the athlete. He or she has put as much energy into the pole as possible and has stopped moving. Now it is the pole’s turn to take over and move the athlete. The feeling of power through the rigid arm and top hand is the result of the poles momentum and not anything being done by the vaulter. As the pole wins this battle, the vaulter becomes progressively lighter. When the pole stops moving at the end of the jump, the vaulter keeps moving up. There is no more the pole can do because it has ceased to move. There is no more reason to stay connected to it; it has done its work. The vaulter, still rising, has negative gravity. Using the arms here is not like doing a handstand pushup off of the ground because gravity is not a factor. It is at this point that the arms can be effective and not before. The dilemma is that with a Bubka-like extension this use of the arms is impossible. The body position won’t allow it..

I will agree 100% to your notion of a passive moment if an athlete stays back side to the pit for to long. Hence if they perform the early extension and then pause when they are on the back side of the pole then they have a passive moment. I feel Bubka on the other hand perform this early extension and then did what I call a quarter turn putting him so that his left side was facing the pit and he was on the right side of the pole with his top hand (straight) on his right hip. This I believe was performed by and active bottom elbow pulling behind you causing your body to be able to rotate. This I mind you is after the elbow moves out to the left so that the bend can move out to the side. As the bend in the pole is decreasing a switch should be made from out to the left to behind with the bottom elbow. As it gets closer and closer to your body it will allow for a tight spiral action to occur. I think this because on roughly 70% of my jumps on poles under a 14'1 hand grip I can perform this action and get to the side of the pole before the pole uncoils. The thing I have found is that as I use a stiffer pole or higher hand grips it become harder to control my legs. I can also keep my torso glued to the poles but my legs begin to drift off to the right as you put Bubka did. Also I still have not mastered keeping my torso locked it sometimes arches because of my stupid head. LOL that’s a different story in its self.

However this seems to correct itself as I finish my rotation around the pole. Quite honestly I feel that because of this it made it easier for Bubka to be completely alignment with the pole. As the rotation was completely his legs would fall back into alignment and guess what he was in perfect position to receive all the energy he could. I think Isinbaveja demonstrates the same principles but she can hold this tighter than even Bubka could. Maybe because of the less energy she is applying in the pole at takeoff or due to the poles she is using is not as stiff or better yet she is able to control her body better than Bubka did.

A final point you made which I now see I need to have more clarification in the future was in terms of my hand stand test. I think there is a huge difference between performing the pulling action when the pole is still bent and when it is finishing unbending and all the energy is in your system as you put it with negative gravity. That’s a huge difference. In the later I will agree the person that can wait the key word wait till this point stay as close as possible receive all the energy and then rip through will as you put it will add energy to this stage of the vault. However if they pull through even slightly early they will not create energy yet destroy it in my opinion. Hence why many vaulters can do this with lower hand holds because the timing is quicker, but when they move up they pull to early.

This is why I teach to perform the quarter turn first and then as your body is finishing its wrapping around the pole you can allow your top arm to pull through. Another thing I have been experimenting with is this.

Must vaulters during the pull through keep their top arm elbow locked on their body. This in return means their hand must move away from their body. What if we could reverse this? Instead keep the hand locked and have it scrap the body and let the elbow move out to the side. As rotation is occurring we want the shoulder to rotate in that direction anyways. Would rotating the top arm elbow out to the said during the pull through keep vaulters more in line with the pole during the initiation of the flyaway. As Tim put once you receive all the energy you have negative gravity anyways so you’re already in flight keeping the hand tight during the pull will allow you to wrap completely around the pole and could allow for a higher hand hold due to the fact of letting the pole rotate all the way through release. Too many now during the pull keep the elbow locked and when they pull move the pole back down the runway ceasing rotation.


Just a thought. Tim by the way look at Hoffman. He was a little guy for a pole vaulter and came off crazy on the top. He couldn't get on big grips if I recall correctly, but had a massive flyaway. Would you call his unorthodox movements in the air ingenious or out of control. Maybe we are looking at this all wrong, if goign over the crossbar undercontrol a sign that your doing something right or wrong. Maybe regaining your composure during the turn and flyaway is costing you height. Then again for the sake of the sport I wouldn't want to see young vaulters all over the place either.

such a tough observation

[Tim McMichael]

I love to learn stuff I didn’t know before. This is exciting as hell.

I am blown away by what you are experimenting with. I have never thought about reversing the elbow with the hand at the very top of the jump. That is something that is well worth exploring. The pole going back towards the runway as the hand comes out has always struck me as an awkward move. If you stop a video at this exact instant it looks like the vaulter is lost in space, and they are. I am trying to think what it would look like to do what you suggest. I am also thinking about how this could be combined with a left hand pull. This is uncharted territory, and I haven’t been in that for a long time. I am going to have to get my camera out and dust off some poles.

Let’s look through some jumps and see if we can find anybody that is doing it.

Also, I think what we are talking about here is very advanced stuff. Working on the top end has to mean that everything else is pretty solid already. I don’t think I would say a word to a beginner or even an intermediate vaulter about this till they could push off a long way just by staying close to the pole.

As to what you said about Scott - I will take power over pretty any day. I would just like to have both. LOL.

[ADTF Academy]

I love to learn stuff I didn’t know before. This is exciting as hell.

I am blown away by what you are experimenting with. I have never thought about reversing the elbow with the hand at the very top of the jump. That is something that is well worth exploring. The pole going back towards the runway as the hand comes out has always struck me as an awkward move. If you stop a video at this exact instant it looks like the vaulter is lost in space, and they are. I am trying to think what it would look like to do what you suggest. I am also thinking about how this could be combined with a left hand pull. This is uncharted territory, and I haven’t been in that for a long time. I am going to have to get my camera out and dust off some poles.

Let’s look through some jumps and see if we can find anybody that is doing it.

Also, I think what we are talking about here is very advanced stuff. Working on the top end has to mean that everything else is pretty solid already. I don’t think I would say a word to a beginner or even an intermediate vaulter about this till they could push off a long way just by staying close to the pole.

As to what you said about Scott - I will take power over pretty any day. I would just like to have both. LOL.

The challenge is finding the right camera angles when watching video. The sad part is I have seen a few jumpers do it but it was almost as if they didn't mean to. One of those things when you do something right or what I think is right, but it goes against everything you have been taught or usually feel so you say it must be wrong.

Plus so many shots of most vaulters seem to be with their backs to you as if they go well a righty i need to stand here and here comes a lefty i need to switch sides. I personally have only been able to get my elbow out and keep my hand tight on a very low percentage of jumps mainly on smaller poles and shorter runs. The challenge is once again not performing the motion to early or the wrist gets a little sore. Hence why I have not moved to a longer approach and higher grip and concentrating on this yet.

I think the goal of power and pretty is this. If god meant us to fly we would, pole vault is one way of going against mans limatation. I guess it is kinda expected we will be a little crazy in the air. Body awarness is the key. Heck watch those crazies that are shot out of cannons they seem to be all over the place in flight as well.

[Soar Like an Eagle]

[quote="Tim McMichael"]This subject has always fascinated me because of what I experienced when my technique was in its formative stages. I was coached mostly by Joe Dial and his father. Old Mr. Dial was something of a mad scientist when it came to the vault. He would tell you about the end of the world and your vault at the same time, all in cryptic biblical terms. He had almost no education, but he was a natural genius at physics and biomechanics. He developed a vault for Joe and me based on the fact that we were not tall enough to grip up there with the Tullys and Bells of the world. The focus was almost entirely on push off. It was definitely what you would call a tuck and shoot, but I saw Joe clear 18’10â€Â

[Tim McMichael]

Mr. Dial was a great coach. He used Buckingham's jump as a model for what he developed for Joe. He was pretty strange though. He would say things like: "The bible says that satan is a roaring lion, that pole aint no roaring lion. Knob it and drive it to Wichita." (If we were going north.) You never quite knew if he was on to something or had finally lost his mind completely. Still, You would not know my name if not for him.

[Soar Like an Eagle]

Mr. Dial was a great coach. He used Buckingham's jump as a model for what he developed for Joe. He was pretty strange though. He would say things like: "The bible says that satan is a roaring lion, that pole aint no roaring lion. Knob it and drive it to Wichita." (If we were going north.) You never quite knew if he was on to something or had finally lost his mind completely. Still, You would not know my name if not for him.

Great coach and philosopher (?). Sometimes you do not be a rocket scientist to teach the pole vault. Mr. Dial must be quite a motivator. For the pole vaulters, coaches and anyone reading this post, this was late 70s through the early 90s that is a long time ago when Jeff Buckingham, Joe Dial and you were having great success competing. Have a great weekend.