100 times...

[Carolina21]

Altius please repond to one question. This is something I have wondered about. What is the main differnces you have fuond between sprint mechanics with a pole and without? What are some things we can work on as vaulters to improve speed with a pole? Thanks much appreciated.

Ok back to the subject:
Altius,
I didn't mean to sound critical and I agree with most all of your posts I have read, and I know that what nobody wants is a bunch of vaulters thinking the 100 is the holy grail of being able to jump high. I just think vaulters should be encouraged when it comes to competing in other events. I think it will help them greatly and not cause any decline in their ability to vault. I will be the first admit I have lots to learn about the vault still, and want to hopefully feel like that as long as I am involved in the sport. I guess the reason I said what I said is all the high school vaulters I see really struggle with the run and approach just as much as they struggle with the vault itself. I myself struggled with it in High School, and I really wished I would have had a chance to sprint more and learn to run more efficiently sooner (old habits die hard!!!). I was one of those slowest 15ft vaulters you had ever seen in high school leaning back low hips flat footed, it was really hard to watch, I was great on the pole turtle on the runway. So I think if a vaulter is interested in learning to sprint and running a 100 or 200 or whatever we should encourage that. It will only make them better athletes.
They will be OK, whats wrong with another bench mark to see how you compare to the best guys in the world why limit it to only LJ or only some other benchmark?
What bothers me (and this is not directled at Altius,, he is a great asset to the board but rather this is directed at the whole Board in general) is I just don't think it is fair everytime a topic like this comes along to discourage someone like LancerVaulter07 who wants to know what someone ran in the 100 and tell them its useless to know or imply they are somehow ingnorent for even bringing it up (I see this all the time on here, with whats you bench or your 100, or pull ups or whatever). Is it going to hurt them to know and compare themselves to to other people? I would love to know every 17ft, 18ft, 19ft vaulters mark in everything they ever did. It would allow me to pin point my weak areas. If I noticed every 19 ft vaults was a way better LJ than me but my speed and strength were nearly the same then I would have a good idea were my weakness was. If athletically I was equal or better than all them, then I would know it must be technique, etc.

The only true indicator of how high you can vault is what bar you have cleared so these other events and tests are simply tools to break down what might be the weak point with our vault, so PVP community, lets embrace them. Individually each is imperfect but taken together they start to give a very good profile of an athlete.

I know everyone on here can name guys (and I am sure somebody will they always do) who were terrible LJer or slow on the runway or could only bench 60 pounds or whatever and they still managed to jump like an incredible 30,000ft, and thats great I applaud them, but maybe if they were a little better LJer or 100m dasher or bench presser they could have jumped 30,001 ft.

None of them jumped that high becuase they were slow or because they were weak, they jumped that high in spite of it.
They were exceptional as in exceptions not the norm.
Thats all I want evryone to acknowledge.

So for my grande Finale!!!!!!!

This one goes out to you LancerVaulter07 and all the people who want to know what other people have done. I will be the first:

100m = 11.07
LJ = 6.20 ish (never actually jumped in a meet so I have no idea jumped 20' in HS)
High Jump = 6ft
200 = 22.70
Vault = 5.50m
Best Push off = 3 feet 6 inches
Bench Press = 325
Squat = 400
Power Clean = 300
Pull Ups = 58
Overhead SHot 16 lb = 49ft
Standing Broad Jump = 10'7
400 split = 50.3
800 = 2:09
and last but not least
Pole vault pole Beer Bong = 35 seconds (SEC knows all about that)


Please don't anyone get too upset I know these threads can spin out of control. I just really like to discuss vaulting because I love it. I think if any vaulter on here want to know athletic stat's they should never be shot down. In the past I have not posted some of mine for the very reason that someone will say ohh that stuff is not important and make anyone who wanted to kow feel like they were dumb for asking.
I would encourage everone on here to post every mark you have ever had don't be embarassed its good stuff to know it will give people ideas of what it might take to get where you want to be in the vault.

[altius]

One answer and two comments.

The answer. When a pole is carried -no matter how efficiently - the centre of mass of the vaulter/pole system is moved forwards. This means to stay balanced while carrying the pole in the early phase of the run the athlete must execute the claw strike of the foot fractionally further ahead of their c.o.m than is the case with sprinting. So the knee/thigh is punched a fraction higher and the lower leg extends a fraction further before the foot strike. if you look at almost any of the vaulters to follow the Petrov model - and probably bubka himself and kevin Rans are the best examples - the run up almost looks like an exaggeration of the key elements of good sprinting. This why i recommend 'Claws' and 'Ostrich runs' for the early phase of the run up.

As the pole starts to drop the problem changes because this forces the athlete to run with quicker strides - increase cadence. So then we use the idea of 20/20s and 20/25s that agapit introduced us to when he lived here

Comment No 1. I agree that young vaulters should always compete in other events esp. the 1oo/200/lj/hj or hurdles -if they can cope with them. The major problem is that many youngsters come to the vault because they are not good in those other events!! - they are reluctant to go back to them because their limitations may be exposed!

Comment no2. Although I said that I did not want to continue this debate I would suggest that few readers - if any - could name the vaulter with most athletic ability and potential at world level in the last 10/15 years - but who has achieved very little because of technical limitations.

[Carolina21]

Awesome info. Thanks. I will definately try to implement this into my approach, I feel my knee lift is probably lacking slightly in the first phase of my run.
One more follow up: If ideal sprint position is slightly forward, would you say since the poles weight has the above described effects on vaulters that during the first phase of the run this 'vault' sprint position changes to nearer nuetral or still slightly forward just to a fraction lesser degree? Basically if you drew a line through the perfect vaulter during his approach what degree would that line be and would it change throughout the approach, and how would it compare a line you would find on a perfect athlete for simply running w/o a pole?

[OUvaulterUSAF]

I do a lot of long jump workouts. The main exercise I do is bounding--alternating leg, single leg, frog hops. I spend once a week doing just that at practice after warm-ups. It really helps with the take-off. Since I'm only 5'9", I have to compensate having a bounding jump take-off, as opposed to those freaks of nature who are 6'2"+ and just have to simple put there arms above their head. Us short people have to work on form.

[altius]

Have a look at the videos - what you will see is an upright trunk and the athlete 'running in front of themselves". It has to happen like that if they want to run tall, balanced and with the pole under control.

Incidentally OUvaulterUSAF - I will be driving through Indiana on the way from a clinic in Kansas to one at Slippery Rock around June 8/9. Would be happy to put a one day clinic on in your area for the cost of a motel room and some Maccas!!

[nitro]

i went 11.69 yesterday

[LancerVaulter07]

seems like all good info, you guys know your stuff...

by the way, Altius.. that photo is sick man!

[altius]

Yep - He does look as tho he is hanging over the rail of a ship barfing -or about to give up and dive in!

[Kolber]

I dont think this is totaly true, i run about a 12.5 and im up in the 13' range

[CrossBarHOpper]

i dont know my 100 time but my 300 is a 39 flat

[TreyDECA]

i feel that long speed endurance runs help me more... like 4/5x250m+ for training... and as the season progresses, knock the times down and the distance until you're doing like 60 fly's or something in May... the weight room is the place you get your power for foot speed, stride length, etc. hit the olympics, hurdle hops and bounding.

as far as what other events correlate to the PV... the 110h and lj are pretty close as far as step consistancy... but there's nothing that truly compares.


10.35 100m
20.98 200m
33.5 300m
48.33 400m
7.75m L J (~25'6")
5.30i PV (17'4.5")

[altius]

Perin's study, done with french vaulters in the 70s/80s showed that there was a .86 correlation between long jumping and vault - thats pretty close!

However there is not a lot of correlation between your 400 times and the times for 100/200/ 300. Seems to me that you need to do a few more gut busting anaerobic sessions!!! Oh - and you didnt mention your 1500 time - aound 4.30 i hope if you are aiming for 8600!