dern the helmets!

[Atleetwinvaulter]

Yeah Bruce, i totaly agree with you! Lets jsut say its another werid thing that Some Virginia county's are doing to make them(the county's) feel safer about allowing high school students to vault. There was some speculation at one time last year that vaulting was goign to be taken out of Virginia high school track and field all together in the near future. So sadly helmets is one of the last things that Virgina county's can do to cover itself if something actually did happen. So if someone did get hurt they could say, "Hey We took all the safety precautions possible, sry not our deal" maybe not jsut liek that lol, but it sounds liek a Virginia kinda thing. Just liek you said Bruce, if youve meet all those requirments there shouldnt be an issue, sadly some Va county's dont see it quite liek that.
Matt

[Vaultref]

I am surprised that any state athletic association would recommend or should I say force the use of helmets in the vault without the backing of the NFHS and without an ASTM tested/approved helmet design.

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think the Big-10 mandated helmets at the collegiate level. We all know what happened last indoor season

But one thing for sure is this, I don't beleive any helmet will save a vaulter from a direct fall on his head from 16 feet or more on to the surface around the pit and save his life. He will not have head injury as a helmet is supposed to prevent because I feel he will have broken his neck. Not many surive that kind of injury.

I'm not worried about that kind of fall as it is one of those that should rarely occur.
HOWEVER, I am worried more about those falls where the vaulter has already landed on the pads close to the edges, bouches off and then comes down a little off balance on to his/her neck or head area. Those falls are only from 32 inches or so. Can a helmet save this person??? I don't really know but I have seen some close calls over the years with just that kind of fall.

If I were a vaulter I would demand that all sides of the landing pit all the way around are protected with padding of 2 to 4 inches thick out at least 4 feet, and all areas aound the box padded the same way or pads that are right tight up around the box.
The schools should be providing this, the coaches should be insisting on it, the officials should not allow the venue to be used without it and the vaulter should not jump if it isn't there.
It may cost you a one time charge of $1000 bucks, but an injury/death lawsuit will cost you many times more than that.

[Decamouse]

Could a helment help in certain situations? sure -
-- the rule changes are also to make it safer
-- better coaching makes it safer,
-- Following the rules makes it safer
By the way the NFHS does not require PV Pits to meet the current ASTM Standard - It uses many of the same dimensions but does not cover the complete spectrum - If you think pits are pricey now - what if all need to be testing according to the de-accel criteria in ASTM?

Look at some of the reports - most injuries are not from a 17' fall - if so maybe the softbox would have been required -

Safe set-ups
Good Coaching
Learn to vault - not bend a pole
Focus -

[advath]

http://www.gonesurfing.com/store/dept=s ... n_count=8/

[Bruce Caldwell]

Is a helmet safe? I am not sure
I am worried about the problems a helmet will create!

A. False hope that you are invincible!
B. Neck injury in the pit when landing wrong on the helmet!
I was told by a coach no one lands on their head! Oh really go to this site and see a 19' vaulter do just that.
http://www.vaultstuff.com/html/athletes/Dean_Starkey/crash.htm Dean is a well establish and very talented vaulter
"do do occurs" people! his fun vault site is http://www.vaultstuff.com
C. Puerperal vision that the helmet blocks.
D. Every time you land the helmet rattles the brain.
E. False hope that a helmet will protect you when no helmet designed today will guarantee that.
When Riddel helmets started selling their helmets to reduce injury they had more lawsuits on helmets than before the safety label went on them.
They have now disclaimed any protection comments to reduce their exposure to fault.
A few companies that make bike helmets have, a sticker inside that says not intended for pole-vaulting to reduce their risks.

If no one makes a helmet that is suited for the pole vault and no manufacturer is willing to take on the helmet issue as the cost of insurance will run the helmet price up to about $100.00 each.
Then how can a state association make an item that does not exist required?

[Bruce Caldwell]

If no one makes a helmet that is suited for the pole vault and no manufacturer is willing to take on the helmet issue as the cost of insurance will run the helmet price up to about $100.00 each.
Then how can a state association make an item that does not exist required?
Just to be within the conformity and make sure you are following the rules.

I would make the state association that requires a helmet to provide one to meet their criteria??????

Providing a hemet will place all the liabilty on the association!

[PVJunkie]

If your not sure you have sure established that you are biased against them. Why, if they are so bad, are so many wearing them. I (as most of you know) am a vaulter of over 21 yrs and have only worn a helmet for the past year. NO YOUR BRAIN DOES NOT RATTLE AROUND IN YOUR HEAD ANYMORE OR LESS THAN WITHOUT A HELMET (you attain the same force upon impact either way). None of the vaulters I work with became suicidally over confiedent (that false sense of security that anti helmet people lide to quote) by wearing one. I guess we better alert the skate and biking community about that one. If they all stop wearing helmets they will no longer feel invincible and they wont get hurt (sounds pretty stupid doesnt it). I am for anything that makes the event safe and fun. A helmet has not caused any problems with the athletes I work with. Now........there is NO such thing as a Pole Vault helmet, what has been reccommended by the ASTM and the NFHS is.........IF you are going to wear a helmet that it be a skate or watersports style helmet. Its simple.........if you dont want to wear helmets, vault safe. If you want to vault safe stop over gripping and learn to VAULT high not GRIP high. Learn to roll poles over and land in the mats not set your standards a 12" or 45cm and hope nothing goes wrong. Bury those bad boys and learn to roll the pole over. OK OK im gonna quit rambling but while coaching education is the ultimate key there are already WAY too many bad unsafe coachs out there so if a helmet can WAKE them up without killing someone then SO BE IT. There are pleanty of good coachs out there too and if you have one of them or you are one of them keep up the good work. Keep our event safe and fun.

[Bruce Caldwell]

PVJunkie"]If your not sure you have sure established that you are biased against them.

I am taking one line out of your full quote above to answer. Most of what you say we are in agreement with.

I would not say I am biased against them , I fear they will be a problem with in themselves. However we do feel that wearing a helmet should be a voluntary thing and would not stand in the way of those chosen to do so.

It is a the mandate thing that I am against when there really has not been enough studies to provide facts pro or con to date.

Education, supervision, and knowing your limits are all very important topics you have covered!!!!

[Azbeachboy1]

The 3 most common injuries:
1.a vaulter misses the landing mat and strikes his head on an unyielding ground surface
2. a vaulter bounces or rolls out of the landing mat after landing, striking his head on the ground or an object around the landing mat.
3. A vaulter is whipped upside down into the planting box during the takeoff and strikes his head in or around the planting box.

[vaultguru6]

The 3 most common injuries:
1.a vaulter misses the landing mat and strikes his head on an unyielding ground surface
2. a vaulter bounces or rolls out of the landing mat after landing, striking his head on the ground or an object around the landing mat.
3. A vaulter is whipped upside down into the planting box during the takeoff and strikes his head in or around the planting box.

i highly doubt those are the most common injuries, but definately the most deadly.

[Azbeachboy1]

The 3 most common injuries:
1.a vaulter misses the landing mat and strikes his head on an unyielding ground surface
2. a vaulter bounces or rolls out of the landing mat after landing, striking his head on the ground or an object around the landing mat.
3. A vaulter is whipped upside down into the planting box during the takeoff and strikes his head in or around the planting box.

i highly doubt those are the most common injuries, but definately the most deadly.

3 most common fatal injuries.

[lonestar]

Most common vault injury: landing on your feet and spraining/breaking your ankle

Don't land on your feet!

Most common pain associated with vaulting: back pain from taking off under

Don't take off under!