Bubka could have jumped 6.50! Isinbyeva will jump 5.20!

[Mecham]

She needs to get on bigger poles

biggest misconception in pole vaulting!

No no no no no... its not like that. not at all. When she swings up and is in the 3rd phase, she is waiting. It looks like she is just going along for the ride. The timing is off because she is ahead. I KNOW i heard someone say in an interview or something that she needs to get on bigger poles.

IF she fixes her take off and swing, i think she could have an attempt at it. I think her time will run out before she gets there though. she still has atleast 19 meets to jump at

Eventually someone will jump 5.20 IF they use the 6.40/5.20 model. I dont think Izzy will be it, just cause of time and the way she was taught. But sometime soon, someone will.

You can delete my previous post too

[altius]

Lonpvh - The official analysis of that jump indicated his centre of mass was at 6.50m - and yes you are right, in the piked position he was in, it is likely that his COM was outside the body - inside the pike as it were. Work it out for yourself. I take it that you have seen clips/stills of the barcam view of that jump.

What is equally interesting is that on Tarasov's 5.96 jump - the one which he thought had won him the gold - his COM was calculated at 6.23m.

[Mecham]

p.s. nice picture alan........

[dj]

hey

mecham is correct... the way a vaulter takes off "loads" (shortens the radius) and lets the vaulter "un-load" or swing off the pole with the right rhythm and timing.. simply put the vaulter "bends" the pole with the body mass and speed at takeoff (and not "un-naturally with arm force)and "un bends" the pole with the swing as the body passes horizontal to the ground...

a vaulter that stretches to takeoff will "force' bend the pole but cannot swing properly.. the vaulter will then penetrate deep and "think" they need a bigger pole.. but will only get compounded negative results on a bigger pole because of the poor take off...

a quicker cadence over the last 4 steps will make a seemingly soft pole work "crisp" and quick...

most coaches and athletes think the "quick" steps they see bubka and others taking are shorter... they are not.. the length is the same for the last 4/6, but faster.. creating more force..

how many of you jump high from a short run on a small pole???

how many of you get good height above the grip on a small pole but then cannot on your big pole??

you are working the right cadence with the right pole and right takeoff... you have to do the same on your long run.. and that doesn't always mean a bigger pole... the big pole will come if you have the correct takeoff and are creating more "force" in the correct way.. if you "blow" through then you change...

note: also make sure you are "blowing" through and not "by" the pole.. we will discuss that later..

pole speed is a result of a proper.. "free"? takeoff..
i have written the model i use to teach by on several occasions... each time it has been published it was changed or interpreted according to the readers experience.. most of the time it is viewed as "not that simple"...
i'll try and describe it in 2/3 pages and post it on here..

later

dj

[Mecham]

No no no no no... its not like that. not at all. When she swings up and is in the 3rd phase, she is waiting. It looks like she is just going along for the ride. The timing is off because she is ahead. I KNOW i heard someone say in an interview or something that she needs to get on bigger poles.

IF she fixes her take off and swing, i think she could have an attempt at it. I think her time will run out before she gets there though. she still has atleast 19 meets to jump at

Eventually someone will jump 5.20 IF they use the 6.40/5.20 model. I dont think Izzy will be it, just cause of time and the way she was taught. But sometime soon, someone will.

You can delete my previous post too

Okay, sorry im just now saying this, but i need to credit my post. Cougarscoach and i were talking about this subject and my last post is what HE said. Im sorry again, Cougarscoach is a mad genius!!!

[dj]

hello

by the way i have shifted my discussion on these issues to the BTB site...

kool

dj

[agapit]

mecham is correct... the way a vaulter takes off "loads" (shortens the radius) and lets the vaulter "un-load" or swing off the pole with the right rhythm and timing.. simply put the vaulter "bends" the pole with the body mass and speed at takeoff (and not "un-naturally with arm force)and "un bends" the pole with the swing as the body passes horizontal to the ground...

a vaulter that stretches to takeoff will "force' bend the pole but cannot swing properly.. the vaulter will then penetrate deep and "think" they need a bigger pole.. but will only get compounded negative results on a bigger pole because of the poor take off...

a quicker cadence over the last 4 steps will make a seemingly soft pole work "crisp" and quick...


dj

I do not think there is a question of whether it is beneficial to use the stiffest pole possible. If the jump done without errors the body weight vs. pole stiffness is essential characteristic of an efficient vault. The bigger the difference the faster the off-the-ground phase of the jump will be.

The fact that early fiberglass vaulters could jump 5.90m with 190-195LB poles is telling me only one thing; the timing and pole utilization became the focus for the vaulters of that time instead of a physical input. Perhaps it is connected with the fascination with qualities of the fiberglass poles.

In my opinion shortening the “swingâ€Â

[Mecham]

[quote="agapit"]In my opinion shortening the “swingâ€Â

[jomrus]

Izzy will jump much higher=True
Izzy can jump 5.20=Probably True

However, I see one major problem with her jump. I've said it before, and I might sound like a lunatic, but I think she zaps some of her energy by pulling down with her bottom arm at the initiation of her "row"/"swing" to vertical. Bubka had excellent technique, and after watching vids of both, I see some elements of Dragila in Izzy's jumps with the pulling down of the bottom arm.
PS- No doubt she is a monster good vaulter, but she could be even better.

www.stabhochsprung.com

You can find a video of Izzy on the main page, and Bubka is in there somewhere for those that are curious...

[jomrus]

Man she has come a loooong way since 2001. What a beast. I was watching one of her older jumps on www.stabhochsprung.com and she sucked back then. Amazing...

[dj]

hello

i agree that "shortening of the swing/tucking" should not take place, and if it does it should be very, very fast, because it does create a lose of energy...

i used shortening of the swing.. and tuck as one and the same..
it think agapit and i are saying the same things...

someone mentioned not finishing the takeoff....i wasn't talking about that either... just a tuck.. hopefully we wan't confuse the terminologies..

the plant/takeoff is the most important phase of vaulting.. and should be crisp and explosive.. all in a 1/2 of a breath! boom! done.....

dj