Using the lead leg (drive knee) as the first swing leg...

[Mecham]

On Spencer Chang's Vault 2000. There is a section on the vaulters swing. The Russian Model (sergey) The two leg swing (Galfione) and the tuck and shoot (hartwing). Spencer notes that Hartwig doesnt row or he doesnt bring his right hand to his right hip. Thats where i got it from

[agapit]

Mecham - you must be on some strong stuff to come up with that question/comment.

What is that stuff mecham?

[agapit]

On Spencer Chang's Vault 2000. There is a section on the vaulters swing. The Russian Model (sergey) The two leg swing (Galfione) and the tuck and shoot (hartwing). Spencer notes that Hartwig doesnt row or he doesnt bring his right hand to his right hip. Thats where i got it from

Let's see who will get 21ft first and if they will lower their swinng leg? 6m vault was an achievement 19 years ago. I think both Jeff and Galfione would jump higher using the modern model.

[Mecham]

Mecham - you must be on some strong stuff to come up with that question/comment.

What is that stuff mecham?

He's joking around. I made a dumb comment. I was trying to get to the point by having a long swing leg is better than tucking both legs

[fx]

In from beginner to bubka, they say that a shorter axis of rotation increases the speed of the swing. This means that tucking up and rocking back would increase speed and acceleration of the body towards the vertical position because the axis is shorter. Also, force= mass * acceleration, so because acceleration is faster with a tuck, the tuck should also be putting more force into the pole. This is not the technique that i use, but logically it makes more sense.

[wacky274]

In from beginner to bubka, they say that a shorter axis of rotation increases the speed of the swing. This means that tucking up and rocking back would increase speed and acceleration of the body towards the vertical position because the axis is shorter. Also, force= mass * acceleration, so because acceleration is faster with a tuck, the tuck should also be putting more force into the pole. This is not the technique that i use, but logically it makes more sense.

The problem here is that when you tuck, you are now decreasing the length of the "lever" or your leg. By doing so you will in turn generate less force...ok, hopefully this example may help (maybe not)...if you are trying to loosen a very tight nut with a wrench, you would typically use the longest wrench you could for that because you will be creating more torque with that longer lever...it is true that using a shorter wrench would turn faster, but to turn a longer wrench faster would be ideal...now i am aware this is not the most "technical" explanation, but if you think about this concept in your vault, trying to create a long lever, when moving that lever properly, you will be able to generate a greater force.

[fx]

yeah, i get what you're saying.

[altius]

Fx - suggest you re read BTB a bit more carefully - alhough i am glad you have read it (hope you bought one for yourself!!!) the point is made that it is not a good idea to tuck at the hips AND the knees - this does not put energy into the pole and ---equally important does not put the vaulter in a position to continue putting energy into the pole in the third phase -ie when they should drive the hips up. See BTB Pages 154/155.

I specifically quote petrov who states "The vaulter should not try to bend his legs at the knee and hip joints".

However it is the case that even with a great take off and whip - once the athlete swings past the chord of the flexible pole - (the real pole biomechanically speaking) there is not enough energy left in the system and they are forced to shorten the axis of rotation if they want to get back fast enough to cover the pole to properly exploit the third phase. As i indicated earlier this is the problem i believe Dima and Toby both have. They get back - but not soon enough to efficiently exploit the recoil.

[lonestar]

As i indicated earlier this is the problem i believe Dima and Toby both have. They get back - but not soon enough to efficiently exploit the recoil.

Tarasov too, right? How about Gataullin?

[altius]

It is difficult -and dangerous -to comment on vaulters on the basis of video clips because what you see may not represent their normal model. So I am only speculating here and my views are just that - speculation.

I have never seen Gataullin live so this is a problem - but what I have seen suggests that he should have jumped at least 6.10 - IF he had not slightly flexed his left leg at the end of the swing/whip to the chord. I believe this cost him energy which forced him to break at the knees and tuck a little more than he should. This meant that he was not as effective in the third phase as he could have been. This was a pity because he had a great run and take off and his early swing was fantastic. It is just possible that he or his coach did not appreciate the importance of this tiny element of technique -or that he simply could not change it even though he knew there was a problem.

I did see Tarasov vault on several occasions and was often disappointed to see his vault fall apart after a fabulous take off. My opinion -for what it is worth - is that he was not always able to transfer the momentum of his upswinging legs to the pelvis as he started to come back on the pole - as a result he left his pelvis/hips down fractionally longer than Bubka and they were never in position early enough for the amazing upward punch that characterised the latter's jumping.

Just some musing!!

[Russ]

Hey Altius,

While we are at this juncture, would you be willing to take a moment to define a term that you use in BTB? You frequently use the term "cover the pole" but I don't recall that you ever actually define that term anywhere in the book. I interpret it to mean the act of the vaulter reaching an inverted position, aligned with the pole, having swung at least 180 degrees. Is that right? If not, would you please provide an accurate and succinct definition to help me understand it?

Thanks,

[altius]

One of the problems with writing anything for other people to read is that you often assume so much prior knowledge . The idea of 'covering the pole' has been with me for so long -since 1985 -when i first met petrov, that it has tended to become assumed knowledge - to the point where i will have to reread BTB to see if you are right!!

Essentially you are right in your understanding of the notion. However i will further clarify this important issue in the next couple of days - if either 'she who must be obeyed' or CDMilton are prepared to post some images i can send them them.