Isinbayeva 5m!!!

[dj]

I don’t think we have seen the best vaulting… men or women, usa or world

And I may be misguided but I think I have seen several American women as talented as Yelena and even a few men with talent close enough to bubka to jump 20’+

Think about it, 20 years ago (and it takes 7 years for an athlete to reach world class) we had American vaulters 10/15 cm from the magical mark of 20’

Were those athletes better than our jumpers today? No… were those coaches better prepared or more knowledgeable than coaches today??? No…

Do you think the 6.40 model was from bubka? Did anyone ever see Volkov jump!!! I saw him jump at 18’ in 1979 and have his belly button over 2 feet above the bar!!! A 20 foot jump.

Petrov may have described the model based on a bubka vault but the technique and physics was there and being worked on from john pennell forward.. dave roberts, earl bell, mike tully, issakson, norwig.. etc we need to listen to the 6.40 model descriptions from a physics stand point and as a whole unit.. not in film clip parts…and from the run forward….

Have we gotten off track? Looks like it..

My view….

1. we are forgetting it is an event of application of force. The vaulter that can leave the ground at the plant/takeoff with the most force has the best chance of vaulting high.

2. the pole is not a catapult… it is a pole that can be shortened to a point that the swing will move it to vertical… hopefully just in time for the athlete to swing as high as possible above the grip. Swing above the grip, not get catapulted.. (can there be some catapulting.. yes.. but don’t expect it or coach it… it will be the end result of a good, fast swing and doesn't happen often)

3. in poles…. bigger is not always better.. it all depends on how much force you can leave the ground with… and of course how technically sound the plant is…
a pole to stiff will not “shortenâ€Â

[Mecham]

The free-take off does not exist.

I'm not bashing (or trying to) But, try this. Do a standing vertical jump with someone pushing you down on your shoulders. Its rather hard to jump high. Now, have that same person raise their hands a few inches and have the person jump. It is a lot easier. I know its not a great example, but i think it makes a point of the free takeoff, and that it does work, giving the most energy at takeoff.

[quote="dj"]4.an extended body applies more force at the takeoff and during the swing… but the vaulter may have to “tuckâ€Â

[stavhoppare]

There is a hugh difference between a standing vertical jump and the jumping mechanics off of one leg at full speed (yes, full speed, not controlled speed) with a vaulting pole. Vaulters should take off at maximum speed for the length of run they are using. Obviously the maximum speed for a ten step approach will be less than for a 12 step, etc.

Stop the VOODOO VAULT!!!

[stavhoppare]

Pole vaulting is gymnastics on a stick (rigid or flexible). The concept of tapping (not pushing on the back) used when doing giants on gymnastics apparatus is how force is applied and how body rotational speed is generated. The only difference is vaulters do it with only the take off leg. Dave Nielsen has a very good video: Gymnastics for Pole Vault.

[TreyDECA]

i think we'd be soooo much more competitve, or DOMINANT i should say, if we didn't have so many other competitive sports sucking up all the great high school, college, and elite athletes in our country.

do you think any of the these other countries' high jumpers get contacts from the NBA weekly in college and high school? or that every NFL football player at one point or another ran a 100m dash in the low 10's???

in europe it seems that all the great athletes actually are involved in ATHLETICS!!! NOT SPORTS!!!! weird huh???

so could we attribute the dominance of women's vault by europeans and lack of U.S. coaching to the lack of top end athletes vaulting??? i'm sorry but you can't tell me that we don't have some potential great vaulters out there that play in the NBA, NFL, or MLB...

... just my 8 cents.

[SkyHigh21]

It dosn't matter how high you saw someone jump, the cold hard fact is that VOlkov and Issakson NEVER jumped 20 feet. SO why did Bubka? HE must have been doing somehitng right. Saying someone jumped 20 feet if the bar had been there is like saying "if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle." You cannot say one way is better than another until you PROVE your way is better. So go jump 20 feet.

[scubastevesgirly]

\
Stop the VOODOO VAULT!!!

this may be a little off topic, but what's voodoo vault?

[stavhoppare]

VOODOO VAULT..........how can I describe it....In my conversations with Petrov, he expounds on the 6.40 vault.....the free take off is his main emphasis. Markov is the ONLY vaulter who even comes close once in a while to this. Dave Nielsen presented data at the 2005 PV summit that SUGGESTS: with a free takeoff, the pole ultimatly slows and the vaulter passes the true line of the shaft (straight pole) early and can therefore NOT invert/extend/close off/ what ever you want to call it. They get ahead of the true line of the pole and basically bail out. Feofanova does it, Markov did it. To create POLE SPEED, the vaulter must not be outside the plumb line of the top hand/take off toe. It is better to be just a bit under than to be a bit out. Creating force is all well and good if it is applied properly in the correct direction.

The mechanics of the PV is NOT DIFFICULT. Good God, Geoffrey Dyson understood it in the 1960's. IT IS ALL ABOUT POLE SPEED. There are many ways to negate pole speed.

1. Holding too high
2. Slowing down at take off
3. Too far under or out at take off
4. A late plant
5. A low plant
6. Pushing with the bottom arm
7. Pulling with the top arm
8. Trying to invert too soon
9. Throwing the head back

Now, how many vaulters have you seen that are holding too high, slowing down at take off, too far under or out at take off with a late, low plant who push with the bottom arm and pull with the top arm trying to invert as soon as possible.....ALL IN THE SAME JUMP!!!!!!!!!!!

A great plant, an ON takeoff with great penetration and a VIOLENT tapping of the take off leg......leads to awesome vaults. Now invert and extend and there you have it.

People are trying to make this too difficult. Technically, it is not that hard. We just watched Lance win #7. How hard is it to ride a bike? How hard is it to win 7 Tour De Frances?

THE ONLY ADVANTAGE THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS ON AMERICAN TRACK AND FIELD IS TIME. They identify and train athletes earlier. We have the best diet, facilities, equipment, coaches.....they have time.

It has to be a PASSION!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stavhoppare]

ADDENDUM: Oh, I forgot.........STOP THE VOODOO VAULT!!!!!

[dj]

i think the point of mentioning the older vaulters was to emphasize that the physics hasn't changed...

and that, because of high speed film and our ability to

see

details we assume things that don't happen..at least in the way they are being described and coached...

and ... yes a tuck will create a lose of force... and i put it in my writing to demo the action/reaction law of physics...

and...yes we should do things prior to a tuck that would eliminate the need to tuck...

but.. i will say we have been working on what we call... a free takeoff and a prejump ... WRONG... some coaches and athletes may have a sure idea of what these terms mean, but i have seen the wrong approach being used over and over to

find/do

them.. and those efforts have worked against the physics of the event...and working against the physics and a natural process almost always creates failure...

we need to go back to a simplier approach..in our coaching..
and i feel stupid saying this.... RUN...PLant...Swing

run correctly... plant correctly...and swing like h//.

good night john boy......

dj

[stavhoppare]

K.I.S.S.

John Boy??????????5.40...............'69???????????????

[dj]

hhehehe

DR????

dj