Using the lead leg (drive knee) as the first swing leg...

skyshark177 · Unread postby **skyshark177** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:38 pm

Now I know that the Plant is the first thing that causes the load into the pole and then the swing follows and continues to load the pole.

I believe that by watching some vaulters that drop the drive knee slightly after the take off actually use the lead leg as another swing leg that loads the pole first then the trail leg swings and loads the pole. Of course not much but, while I was watching some video's of Toby frame-by-frame, it really looked like this was true.

Has anyone ever talked about this?
Any thoughts?

This technique might be use to get on bigger poles.

swtvault · Unread postby **swtvault** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:01 am

In my opinion Toby drops the right leg as a counter balance. Its not a conscious move, but more of an adaptive one. Toby has that real drastic whip swing, and I believe the dropping and extending of his right foot helps him keep balance in his swing. I would do that, but mine was caused by excessively pressing the bottom hand, and having a poor takeoff in general.

swtvault · Unread postby **swtvault** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:46 am

Oh yeah! If you get a chance Vern, talk to Rock Haines (Amanda Haines dad.) He knows alot about this topic

altius · Unread postby **altius** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:23 am

Simple really. Did Bubka drop the lead leg? NO! Does Isinbyeva drop the lead leg? NO! Ask yourself why not.

"Wisdom can come from any place, any time and in any language". Who said that?

skyshark177 · Unread postby **skyshark177** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:38 am

swtvault wrote:Oh yeah! If you get a chance Vern, talk to Rock Haines (Amanda Haines dad.) He knows alot about this topic

Thanks, I see him at most college meets around my area. I've heard he's a pretty good coach.

skyshark177 · Unread postby **skyshark177** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:32 am

altius wrote:Simple really. Did Bubka drop the lead leg? NO! Does Isinbyeva drop the lead leg? NO! Ask yourself why not.

"Wisdom can come from any place, any time and in any language". Who said that?

Oh ya, they don't drop the knee, of course. They've got the world record, of course.

All though, different styles of vaulting are always interesting to think about and talk about.

MightyMouse · Unread postby **MightyMouse** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:37 am

skyshark177 wrote:
Oh ya, they don't drop the knee, of course. They've got the world record, of course.

All though, different styles of vaulting are always interesting to think about and talk about.

I agree- a set standard to vault is required, but I dont believe there is enough information yet to disregard all slight variations within the standard form

Unread postby **rainbowgirl28** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:02 pm

skyshark177 wrote:
swtvault wrote:Oh yeah! If you get a chance Vern, talk to Rock Haines (Amanda Haines dad.) He knows alot about this topic

Thanks, I see him at most college meets around my area. I've heard he's a pretty good coach.

Amanda Haines has a pretty sweet swing!

altius · Unread postby **altius** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:48 pm

The jury is till out on this one because there are world class athletes who have used a double leg swing -Yegorov i beieve won a bronze medal at an OG??? In Australia we have girl who as a 13 year old jumped 4.00m last year using it and she was taught to do it by her father Alex Parnov who is a world class coach.

Also it is worth noting that many of the great stiff pole vaulters used a double leg swing - and they did it for reasons which make perfect sense if you cannot store energy in the pole.

However I believe it is a case of what you gain on the swing you lose on the roundabout - no thats not what i meant :crying:

- you lose in the inversion. I beleive that if you want to exploit the full potential of the flexible pole you must get back to cover the pole as fast as you can - certainly before it starts to recoil. Anything that stops you doing that - and the slower swing of two legs - would seem to do that - should be avoided. In addition the tendency to anticipate the swing at take off means that many vaulters who use it do not appear to drive the lead knee and finish the take off fully.

As I have observed elesewhere, Dima Markov seems to get the best of both worlds because he does finish the take 0ff - in fact I think he has the best take off in the world - and drops the lead leg for an instant. BUT I believe that this 'instant' slows his whip into inversion so he does not cover the pole early enough and this has so far prevented him jumping 6.10/6.15. Igor Potapovitch won a world indoor title using this method but he only jumped 5.90!! :crying:

Once again you have to balance things out -we decided that the Petrov/Bubka technical model provided the best chance for athletes to fulfil their potential so that is what we followed. However i hope the explanation above shows that we are not following it blindly. :idea:

It may be that a perfect takeoff combined with a double leg swing AND a whip fast enough to put the athlete into position to cover the pole before it starts to recoil, is the way of the future -we will see.

Mecham · Unread postby **Mecham** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:56 pm

When you are on a carousel, do you spin faster on the inside or outside?

altius · Unread postby **altius** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:14 am

Mecham - you must be on some strong stuff to come up with that question/comment.

swtvault · Unread postby **swtvault** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:25 am

Amanda Haines has a pretty sweet swing!

She does, and her Dad is light years ahead of most coaches around here.

PoleVaultPower.com

Using the lead leg (drive knee) as the first swing leg...

Using the lead leg (drive knee) as the first swing leg...

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