Jumpers knee anyone?

[souleman]

You know? Some things about vaulting in the old days I just don't miss. My goofy swelled up painful knee is one of them. This is a constant for me, and always has been since..... oh I'd say my freshman year in high school or so. Funny, I don't remember it being this swelled up when I was in high school but I'm sure it was. So, I figured as long as I'm sittin' here at the computer with the heat pad on the knee, and.....seeing that it's been a while since a thread has been posted on the masters section, I'd just (complain a little) and throw the topic out there to see what you guys do to combat it from, A. happening in the first place (I think a lost cause in my case) and B. how do you deal with it. Later.......Mike

P.S. yesturday was the second day with a pole n my hands. 40 degrees and snowing. No sh*t, it was snowing. I guess a guy just has to have a little bit of an "attitude" to get the "altitude". I figure I had to at least have improved my comeback PR to , oh.....say....4 1/2 feet. Thanks Kevin Hanson for letting me come and play!

[rainbowgirl28]

If it's swelling, you want ice, not heat. The heat will make it swell more (which could further strech ligaments and such).

[souleman]

Actually, thoughts are about 50/50 on that now a days. Some feel, and if you think about it it makes sense, blood flow to an injured area is very important to the healing of that particular area. No blood flow, no healing. Granted Boy Scout First Aid courses teach, to prohibit swelling, cold is good, (frankly the blood vessels shrink and don't let blood through) result is no swelling, but then again, no blood flow to the area, and you don't bring the good stuff to it to heal it. Not saying anybody is wrong, it's just I'm going for the blood flow end of it. You ARE the best Becca, your response shows you do care about all of us on this forum. Later...........Mike

[rainbowgirl28]

Actually, thoughts are about 50/50 on that now a days. Some feel, and if you think about it it makes sense, blood flow to an injured area is very important to the healing of that particular area. No blood flow, no healing. Granted Boy Scout First Aid courses teach, to prohibit swelling, cold is good, (frankly the blood vessels shrink and don't let blood through) result is no swelling, but then again, no blood flow to the area, and you don't bring the good stuff to it to heal it. Not saying anybody is wrong, it's just I'm going for the blood flow end of it. You ARE the best Becca, your response shows you do care about all of us on this forum. Later...........Mike

Blood flow is important... but if there is swelling you are already getting plenty of blood flow. Swelling can permanently stretch out the liagments in the affected area, that is why people who sprain their ankles once are much more likely to sprain them again.

Heat is best a few days after the injury when the swelling has died down. If you put heat on something swollen it will just get more swollen and could cause more damage.

Icing reduces bloodflow but does not completely restrict it, otherwise you would be killing whatever you were icing and no one would ice.

[souleman]

We are both saying pretty much a correct approach to this. And I think in many cases there is no pat answer. After a half hour of heat, my swelling went down and movement is easier in the knee. I still have that "old guy" stiffness that I guess most of us in our age group has when doing this. So I will just watch it a little closer next time. Thanks again Becca for the dialogue on this.I know it will always be something I will have to deal with.Like I said, that knee has hurt during vaulting season ever since I was in 9th grade. The fun part about it now will be the additional facit that it will bring to my vaulting. I will have to plan before hand how many jumps I will be able to make in a competetion before the knee renders me useless. It'll sort of be like bracket racing in drag racing. If I start too early, the knee will be shot before I get to my top height, on the oher hand, if I start too late, I will have the possibility of a NH. It definitely will take some planning and forthought before I compete. Should be interesting if not a bunch of fun figuring it out.Don't you think? Later..........Mike

[rainbowgirl28]

Have you tried using a knee brace, or a neoprene sleeve? That might help you get a few more jumps in on your knee

[CHC04Vault]

and most knee/back problems are from a poor/uneven gait (stride), ortapedics, even over the counter ones can help knee problems, so u may wanna try that. also, find out if u over/under pronate which can affect ligaments and others if left untreated

[souleman]

Because of my tearing my petellar tendon 25 years ago, the first thing I bought was a knee brace. The kind with the hinge on either side. It really helped while I was jumping but the knee acted up on me after the fact. I'm sure it's just another one of those being old deals. Next time I jump, I'll have either Kevin or Chris and Steve make sure my take off is as good as it can be. What is surprising me is my recovery. Yesturday was pretty rough (that old thing again) today is much better. Range of motion is still limited but the swelling is gone and it's coming back (the range of motion in the knee). Just something once again that I'll have to deal with and try to be smarter than it. Later.............Mike

[CHC04Vault]

your not old, just teenage and extreme flying hormones challanged. besides, i have never meet u, but respect u for just jumping, that makes u wanna the coolest jumpers i know, right up there with jan

[vaultwest]

souleman
I think all of us masters vaulters have some weak link in our bodies that we have to deal with on a regular basis. I would have to go with Becca and say that Ice is better than heat. each to his own of course but my advice would be heat it before and ice it afterwards. I had surgery on my left takeoff ankle/foot a couple of years ago and now that is my problem area. My strategy for staying healthy enough to continue my vaulting is as follows, I Ice at night,I take a lot of vitamin I ( Ibuprofen) I do some specific stretches for my ankle ( same could/should be done for a knee) I do specific strengthening exercises for my foot, Correct running machanics are very important, but even more important is correct jumping or takeoff mechanics. Any blocking at takeoff or being under (too close to the Pit) at takeoff creates huge increases of bad forces on the body and what ever our weak link is will suffer from this. and finally one of my biggest areas of concern is body weight, since the force put on your legs is exponential, every extra pound we carry is many more pounds of force that your legs will have to handle so lighter as we get older is certainly better. I think we all have to just be as tuff as we can through training and really enjoy those practice days and meets when we don't hurt.

[Robert schmitt]

Blood flow is important... but if there is swelling you are already getting plenty of blood flow. Swelling can permanently stretch out the liagments in the affected area, that is why people who sprain their ankles once are much more likely to sprain them again.

Actually It's damage to the muscle spindles, golgi tendonorgans, rufini's corpuscles, and other proprioceptive organs that respond to changes in stretch and pressure with in the joint, muscle, and tendon that cause you to sprain you ankle more easily. That's why wobble boards are great for reahb and helping minimize re-injury.

As far as icing It is pretty standard to ice for at least the first 72 hours after the injury and not to apply heat. How ever mike your approach does have histological and physiological merit. I just am not aware of any reaseach that supports it (other than at a cellular/tissue level). That's to say at the cellular level the damaged tissue has chemical makers that actually cause vaso dilation and cause the blood vessel wall to becaome more permiable (resulting in swelling) and that increased blood flow speeds tissue repair. Which appears to be a good thing. What I have not seen is a study designed to test that this in a rehabilitative enviroment. Although I have not activly sought it out either.

[souleman]

Actually, as I was driving back to work today from lunch I was thinking that maybe I should try going lefty. After all, I am re-learning this whole deal so other than totally re-educate my brain it would give me the wonderful opportunity to wreck my other knee!! I think I'll leave that as my last option. Interesting subject though. Later..........Mike