Pole Vault Manifesto

[VaultNinja]

How many models are there?
But why choose the value 6.40m specifically?
Not to sound cynical, but it sounds like you are throwing the word "model" around alot. 6.40 model, 6.00 model, 6.05 model, are there specific physical and numeric analysis on each of these heights that can be defined as models? If so, could you post some of the other ones that you speak of onto some webspace or on this board somewhere, and sight there flaws.

I enjoyed reading your 6.40m model and I agree with most of it, but not all of it. I guess everyone is entitled to there opinion. That is what alot of the post seems like though, opinion. What road led you to these conclusions? Please post some mathmatical ananysis with explanation of procedure, data collection, and validity.

[agapit]

How many models are there?
But why choose the value 6.40m specifically?
Not to sound cynical, but it sounds like you are throwing the word "model" around alot. 6.40 model, 6.00 model, 6.05 model, are there specific physical and numeric analysis on each of these heights that can be defined as models? If so, could you post some of the other ones that you speak of onto some webspace or on this board somewhere, and sight there flaws.

I enjoyed reading your 6.40m model and I agree with most of it, but not all of it. I guess everyone is entitled to there opinion. That is what alot of the post seems like though, opinion. What road led you to these conclusions? Please post some mathmatical ananysis with explanation of procedure, data collection, and validity.

I called it a 6.40 model for several reasons. First, it is 21 ft. Second, I have seen human vault 6.40m. Third, The dynamic of the event is different, so it is distinguished model. Fourth, it is not absolute, but convenient. Someone, may clear 6.34 or 6.45 that is substantially different, over 1'8" than 6m.

There are substantial data, however not all of it is analytical, some of it is empirical. I have a scientific mind and approached the event 20 years ago from an engineering perspective, however, I found that the cost of the research that is required for precise mathematical model is too high and no one seems ready to put up the money. That is why for example there is no defined formula for a take–off angle in pole vault.

It is absolutely certain that height clearance is in direct correlation with the energy generated by a vaulter. The current vaulting models do not address or address very timidly this fact in particular energy in the off the ground phase.

When did the last time someone talked to you about vital importance of energy generation during the second phase? And when last time did you discuss or even thought of a way to maximize the output during the second phase. Aren’t you just been concerned with run up, plant, take off, everything, but the energy in the second phase.

6.40 Model is a different model similar to the block start as compared to the standing start in sprints. For example who told you before that you must invert immediately upon completing the take-off jump? How is this not a different approach (model)? Ask current Olympic Champion; maybe he will tell you more about the practical application of some ideas.

What in particular are you not agreeing with in the 6.40 Model? As to originality, did you ever seen anything of the sort, published anywhere except by the author?

But to set the process straight I must say, I publish this with one goal in mind. It is to see 6.40 (21 ft) in my lifetime. This certainly will make you think about the ideas and concepts and for me this is already a victory.

[dj]

agapit

i address energy generation with my "MID" chart/step chart..

the chart is completely about energy generation..

stide length x stride frequency = speed... mass x time(speed) = force

the chart is all about what i call "horse power" the "MID" with a time in mps, close to the chart, creates enough force ( if the plant mechanics and transfer of momentum are adequate) to move the corresponding hand grip of 17'4" to vertical.

for example to jump 6.40/21' the vaulter will need a "MID" of 59' and cover the 6 steps in 1.33 seconds or faster...which = 9.9 meters per second.

[dj]

Looks like I typed in the 17’4 at the wrong place.. this is the correct last two statements….

“MIDâ€Â

[agapit]

[quote="dj"]Looks like I typed in the 17’4 at the wrong place.. this is the correct last two statements….

“MIDâ€Â

[rainbowgirl28]

I don't know, I think the mid chart can be prescriptive for a lot of US vaulters, especially at the lower levels of the sport.

[dj]

actually i don't just focus on the run.. it's just an area i have to offer that wasn't getting covered....as you said it is a chain of events.. and i believe firmly in the description you gave on the free take-off and swing... as is proof by t-macks results and others before him that were "run-plant- "swing" vaulters... but if the run is not "on" and the vaulter is not in the correct body position to transfer onto the pole...(meaing "OUT" and stretching or very close and chopping/backing off) completing the vault properly is mute....Virtually impossible

plus i did not need to cover the free take-off/swing portion you had covered that very well...and i'm being sincere about that .... hopefully i dito'ed what you wrote, about the takeoff/swing somewhere in my previous writing..

i think with my run and your manifesto russ can jump 6.40 or daniel ryland or a few others that have 10.3 speed... they just need to put them together properly... with the right pole and right grip..


dj

[agapit]

actually i don't just focus on the run.. it's just an area i have to offer that wasn't getting covered....as you said it is a chain of events.. and i believe firmly in the description you gave on the free take-off and swing... as is proof by t-macks results and others before him that were "run-plant- "swing" vaulters... but if the run is not "on" and the vaulter is not in the correct body position to transfer onto the pole...(meaing "OUT" and stretching or very close and chopping/backing off) completing the vault properly is mute....Virtually impossible

plus i did not need to cover the free take-off/swing portion you had covered that very well...and i'm being sincere about that .... hopefully i dito'ed what you wrote, about the takeoff/swing somewhere in my previous writing..

i think with my run and your manifesto russ can jump 6.40 or daniel ryland or a few others that have 10.3 speed... they just need to put them together properly... with the right pole and right grip..


dj

I appreciate your comments. I whish we could meet it Knoxville during your visit here. I agree that the run up is the key to the successful jump. After all, the run up generates the most energy in the event. I hope everybody agrees with that.

However, new model changes things dramatically by focusing on the second part of the vault. The whole new approach developed from a simple understanding of direct correlation of the rigid pole model and the fiberglass pole model.

Once one understands that they are almost identical, one can appreciate the error of 30+ years of modern fiberglass vaulting and the hyper focus on run/take-off instead of the whole event.

I believe with your experience in the event, you can appreciate the idea.

[dj]

i posted some of my thoughts in the technical section..under russian style..
check there...

during earl bells development his sophmore year in college.. the focus was adapting what was learned from steel vaulters to using a fiberglass pole..it was a pretty good year for improvement.. 16'8 to 18'2

dj

[agapit]

i posted some of my thoughts in the technical section..under russian style..
check there...

during earl bells development his sophmore year in college.. the focus was adapting what was learned from steel vaulters to using a fiberglass pole..it was a pretty good year for improvement.. 16'8 to 18'2

dj

I was in High School when I realized connection between steel and fiber 16' - 17'8"

[agapit]

i think with my run and your manifesto russ can jump 6.40 or daniel ryland or a few others that have 10.3 speed... they just need to put them together properly... with the right pole and right grip..
dj

i second you on this.

P.S. You are talking about Buller right?

[agapit]

So are you saying that getting vertical is bad??? 'Cause if so, that makes absolutely no sence to me.

I do not say that getting vertical is bad. I say that that center of gravity should rise faster than pole recoil.

A lot of thinking...

Hey this was before I start using the spoon quote.