Benefits of an "under" step

[DaRuk]

How did BEING UNDER ever get a thread...?

[Bonevt]

someone was saying how being under was better and benifical to your jump...

[swtvault]

I dont know if i agree with you there fiberglass vaulters have jumped 4+ feet higher than steel pole vaulters. I think theres more to the fiberglass than a big bend

You also have to consider that people now are holding 3 feet higher than steel pole vaulters did. Why?? Because of exactly what Barto said. A bending pole shortens the distance you have to travel! Really thats it! The pole does not throw you like many people think it does. It will only give back less than what was put into it; when you see the big boys really fly, it is only because A) they are extremely fast, thus putting more energy into the system and B) the energy losses in their vaults are alot less than normal vaulters. So we have a greater amount of force generated and a lesser amount of force lost, which leads to pushing 3-4 feet over grip. Basically the same as the steel pole guys minus a few inches and 3 feet of grip.

[souleman]

Swt, some of your arguement is valid except for hand hold part of it. Back in the Bob Richards steel pole days they used a 16 foot pole holding about 15 to 15'6 and were jumping around 15 to 16 feet. If the pole went into the pit, (which was then scored as a miss back in those days) it would have knocked the crossbar off. Todays vaulters are doing 3 and 4 feet higher than the poles they use and that can only be attributed to, as Dave said, the verticle component of pole bend but also to the "throwing" of the pole going straight. (Am I close here Dave)? I think a good question here would be how many glass pole vaulters could vault on steel and vice versa. It would be interesting if any one knew for sure. Later.......Mike

[PVPhD]

Another big advantage of a fiberglass pole over a steel pole (besides, as Barto said - a reduction in the radius - thus allowing a higher grip) is that a vaulter can run faster and have a faster takeoff velocity with a fiberglass pole - thus putting more energy into the vault. There are two reasons for this:

1.The poles are lighter so you can run faster with them.
2. More importantly, a vaulter on a fiberglass pole can run as fast as he can and not worry about t his arm being ripped off at the shoulder at pole plant. Steel poles poles did not give much, so your takeoff velocity had to be slower and your takeoff angle had to be higher. You also had to have hugely strong shoulder muscles.

[souleman]

YEAH BABY! You ain't whistling dixie about rippin your arms off. One thing for sure, with the ol' red Gill steel pole you sure didn't want to be under at lift off. The force would "lift off" both arms. Later....Mike

[swtvault]

I can't believe they held 15-15'6 on a non-bending pole. I guess that era is when men were really men. I thought they held 13-14. Sorry for the misinformation.

[Bonevt]

YEAH BABY! You ain't whistling dixie about rippin your arms off. One thing for sure, with the ol' red Gill steel pole you sure didn't want to be under at lift off. The force would "lift off" both arms. Later....Mike

Maby we should give the ppl that think that being under is good steel poles. I bet they wouldn't ever do that again.

[Robert schmitt]

I can't believe they held 15-15'6 on a non-bending pole. I guess that era is when men were really men. I thought they held 13-14. Sorry for the misinformation.

and the "coaches box" was a10 x10 saw dust pit

[souleman]

Robert, I can remember taken my Radio Flyer wagon down to the saw mill in town to get saw dust for my back yard pit. I wanted to be like the high school guys. Ok, here's a blast from the past. Close your eyes and take a whiff. You can still smell that stuff can't you? Sorry, youngins, I just had to go down memory lane with Mr. Schmitt for a bit. No kiddin' kids, that's what we landed in! Later.....Mike

[mikepv1]

There are a few reasons why being under is not good.

First, there is the aforementioned loss of energy to the ground and box if you are still on the ground when the pole begins to load.

Next, there is the lower height of the end of the pole at the takeoff.

The next instance I will describe is related to the last one and is also why you shouldn't drive into the pole with a stiff left arm. When you load the pole while you are still on the ground, action becomes more horizontal than vertical, resulting in the pole being forced to roll to vertical from a lower angle. This effect will also occur if you stiff-arm the pole, which, unfurtunately, alot of American coaches teach as proper technique. When you drive in with a stiff left arm, your right arm pulls the end of the pole down while your left arm pushes the center of the pole up, once again resulting in the pole having to roll to vertical from a lower angle. The result is commonly referred to as squashing the pole.

The American philosophy is one of power. Many American coaches and athletes in the vault take the attitude that the action should be forced to happen rather than allowed to happen naturally. However, pole vaulting is really an action of setting yourself up so that the proper technical cues occur in an unforced manner. The active part is applying force when you acheive proper position, not forcing the proper positions to occur.

For instance, many coaches teach athletes to drive actively into the pole, rather than jumping off the ground and then hanging on the pole, swinging up into the L-position as the pole rolls into a loaded position. Also, many American vaulters in particular tend to ball up and shoot off the pole, rather than swinging the trail leg long all the way up to the L-position (notable exceptions to this being Tim Mack and Dean Starkey). There is also the fallacy of a stiff left arm as noted above.

In some cases, coaches even teach athletes to turn the loaded pole out to the side as they drive in. What they should understand is that as the vaulter travels toward the plane of the crossbar, beginning the swing, the shoulders and arms have a tendency to square up naturally as long as the vaulter is facing forward, causing the pole to move in a unforced fashion into the corner of the box rather than being turned actively by the athlete, which is an unnecessary waste of energy.

Very few coaches in America even bother teaching penultimate step technique, which is essential for an optimum takeoff angle. Alot of athletes are also taught to actively row the pole forward, wich is a big mistake, and severely limits the effect of the swing and the vaulter's ability to acheive proper position in the later stages of the vault, resulting in more forced action and loss of energy. This is not an easy event. It requires alot of rehearsal, preparation, understanding, and feel.

Unfortunately, what apparently occurs is coaches and athletes watch videos of legendary vaulters without really understanding what is going on in them. Coaches see the positions and teach athletes to force these positions to occur rather than finding out how or why they might ocur naturally.

This problem is not exclusive to the U.S., but with the number of talented people in this country learning inefficient technique, it is holding us back.

[ladyvolspvcoach]

Bravo!!! Mikepv1
Bravo!!! Well said! I absolutely agree....