First Movement After Take Off

[titojumps]

The Penn State athlete knew what he was doing, as did his coach. No helmet in the world will save a broken neck-

I didn't know the Penn State athlete or his coach. but i tend to be a little sinical and less objective in assuming that they new what they were doing when such a catastrophic event happened. here's the deal, it's really easy to avoid landing in the box by simply hanging on to the pole. you may end up monkey rolling or landing on a front bun, but not on your head in the box. I've even done it myself, monkey roll that is. the actions of anyone who dies in our activity, in my opinion, should be studied and scrutinized. this is not a personal attack on the individuals, mearly the means by which to try to prevent a like occurance. they jury is still out on helmet safty, but at least we know from experience, helmets prevent your head from spilling your brains. so if you have 2 bad possibilities, a broken neak and a broken skull, why not eliminate 50% of the danger?

What everyone has to do now is
calm down
take a deep breath
be rational, not vindictive or emotional
attack faulty ideas, not individuals
come up with constructive criticism that will benefit the sport
keep the PV community united among ourselves

Are you attacking the indivuals or the ideas here? last time i heard, "everyone" meant people not ideas. hey, i've been wrong before.

hopefully you read into my humor, sometimes it can be misconstrued. please don't accept my rhetoric as a personal attack. i think i learn most efficiently from debate, and i enjoy it.

[titojumps]

litigious-adj, prone to wordy contention.

cool word! i had to look it up. i think you're right about our society becoming increasingly litigious.

[Robert schmitt]

PVjunkie wrote:

That article has no scientific basis. It was an Opinion!!!

You are 100% correct!! And all the points made in the article are valid. However they are all opinion. I've sent several E-mails to that web site asking for how the studies were preformed that are cited in the article. I believe it is a little pre-mature to form an opinion yet on whether a helmet does more harm than good.

[titojumps]

i think it's important to keep in mind that even scientific studies, conducted by scientists, are opinions. Usually well educated, i might add, but still opinions.

[swtvault]

I have heard only one semi-valid point on the downside of helmets. Some say that the elavating of the neck due to a helmet, can cause an increase in the incedence of spinal cord injury (across the 5th and 7th vertebrate.) I find this to be false. Nearly every pole vaulting fatality could have been prevented by a helmet (unfortunataly, Kevin Dare's Death was almost unavoidable--god bless him and his family) Most Pole vaulting injuries happen when the vaulter suffers a severe concusion. Closed head trauma is the number one cause of death in vaulting accidents. It CAN be minimized by a helmet, as a majority of pole vaulting fatalities occcur from a fall of less than 4 feet (mainly vaulters rolling off the back of the mats.) Me personally, I see no downside in wearing a helmet. It can not hurt. I do not advocate mandaory helmet laws, but I think vaulters should wear them--especially the rookie guys and gals. I wore one all last year, and I have jumped over 18 feet.....I am glad to say that I saw no downsides to the helmets.....The arguments of diminished peripheal vision, and added weight SUCK. There is no reason not to wear one. Yes, Good coaching can minimize injuries, but it is Murphys law folks, "whatever can happen will happen." so prepare for the inevitable. my lecture is done. You can go your own way.....Uhhh....Is that a fleetwood mac song? I think it is. Happy holidays mates.

GEO

[Decamouse]

Wow - lets hope the first movement has a larger horizontal component towards the back of the pit and the top hand also exhibits much the same - helmets - there have been studies (not necc. on pole vault) about how much as little as 1/2 padding does for de-accelaration - now much of this I read was back in 85 (Grad school) - swtvault is correct - the helmet is not intened to be the great save all - but is more of a minimization tool in the lower level impact like bouncing of the pit or into the standard (seen that). The new ASTM standard has de-acceleration guidleines for pits as well and list test methods and standards. There is a group working on helmet standards. All this should only suplement good coaching, good judgement and a properly set up facility. As for what happens on a particular jump - we are human (most of us) - brain farts happen - thats another story - I started with the helmet because of no statistically or scientifically justifiable reason not to- and the boss asking me to - will I wear it every time? don't know - Happy Holidays -

[ctvaulter]

in a video i saw, i personally believe the new pole vault box (padded?) will be much more beneficial than helmets. a friend of mine became paralyzed from the neck down last year although there was no press coverage as in the case of the Penn State vaulter. Hitting the back of the box with his spine, this new vault box would have surely kept from this catostrophe. He was not able to enjoy his senior prom or any other dances in the future, even worse: were is his life now?. Family/Friends have to live everyday watching this kid left helpless because of the sport he loved. I say lets work more on improving the box and the pits.

[PVJunkie]

Keep in mind that I work for the Co developing (key word) these. The current problem with them is the cost. They are around 5000 a piece right now and the research is still being one on them. Think about it, a school just bought a 7000 pit and now they have to buy a (or several) 5000 new boxs not to mention that most then would have to pay a contractor to come remove the old one and install the new one. The other problem is with the actual ledge on the box. It is theorized that this will sitll result in spinal fractures no matter how soft it is. The spinal deflection still occurs but the blunt force trauma to the head is reduced. Did it fix the paralasis probelm...........nope, but your head will hurt less. This all brings me back full circle...helmets are far less expensive (in the short term) and MAY (key word again) produce the same results.

[gpc3]

PVJunkie - since you are on the 'inside', do the various pole/pit companies ever try to pool their resources? That would drop R&D costs, yes? The PV may go away if we don't solve the 'safety' issues very quickly and inexpensively.

[titojumps]

spend money educating coachs! then there is no need to change anything which could price the pole vault right out of existance.

speaking of expensive ideas...Brian, what sort of thought has gone into a pit that closes the gap after the jumper leaves the ground?

tito

[PVJunkie]

What the hell are we all doing up this early on a sunday morn??? Heck Ive already been sleding with my kids and here I sit. My life is pathetic whats your excuse?? lol

No.......we do not share info, lots of love lost between all the CO. Its like the 2 kids on the block that get along with everyone but absolutly hate each other. They will talk but wont share anything and definatly dont play together..........EVER.

Tito, its been thought of...........none of us could come up with a way to make it work, got any suggestions??

I will talk to DH on monday with the photos in hand.......keep your fingers crossed and wish me luck.

[gpc3]

Hey, I was up at the crack of noon today!
The two kids that don't get along is an apt analogy. Only in this case, the two kids could very well find themselves dead if they keep fighting.