FLEX NUMBERS

[Guest]

You are correct, anyone can do flex #'s BUT only the maker of the pole can rate it. Here in lies the problem!!! Each co. applies weights to the #'s differently. A 150 from one co. may have the same flex # (done on the exact same span with the exact same wt.) as a 140 from another. Is one right and the other wrong.............well Jan already knows the answer to that and it would be YES. The current method is crude but it does provide realative stiffness (how much stress the pole can take under normal conditions based on the materials used). Only one co. making poles has invested $$$ into materials research (done by materials experts from outside the co.) to develop their flex chart. Just as any good maker of dynamic epuipment should. However, there is no mandate from the ASTM that a standard chart that must be used (the doc is already written it just has not been propsed). The argument here is.......does the current method of rating poles (flexing) take into account the subtle differences in the way each co. manufactures them. This is up to great debate, but the total amount of material used is similar in all brands. Sometimes the grade of glass used varies (E-glass S-glass) which can alter the total amount of material but does not affect the end result (flex). Flexing a pole is more complicated than 2 hurdles and a weight although that method is excellent when comparing different brands and to test different lengths to see which is the next bigger pole at the same grip height. It can also negate the span varience and weight (used to flex the pole) variance from co. to co. I think as a whole standerdized flexing is a great idea. It would take the mystery out of purchasing poles of different brands. I also think 6" incriments in lengths are a must to stay compliant with the NFHS weight rule for the beginning to itermidiate vaulter. As for the notion that MOST coaches out there know what their doing.........thats a tough one to swallow. I talk to dozens of vault coaches every day year round and MOST admit the dont know near enough about the event and some that do think they know about the event just plain scare me!!! If most coaches knew the event, most of the rules would not even be an issue nor would there be a movment for coaching certification in only our event. A bad coach in the sprints is just a bad coach, a bad coach in the vault is dangerous!! The thing to keep in mind is that the vault is only one EVENT in the SPORT or track and field. All the reseach I have seen is comparing our EVENT to other sports as a whole, which is how you get #'s to say what you want them to say instead of what they should say. We can never prevent all injuries but we can minimize the risk. Coaches, who know how to keep the event safe, are the key, not tons of rules that threaten to kill the sport. JUST MY 2 CENTS.

[PVJunkie]

Sorry........thought i was logged in........wanted to take credit for my ramblings!! That long post up there is mine.

later, B

[rainbowgirl28]

Yeah everytime I add a new forum I forget to make the settings on it so you have to be logged in to post.

Your 2 cents are very well stated!

Washington is going to begn a coaches certification program next year... I think we are one of the first. It will be mandatory to have one coach at each school that vaults be certified... I think they will have 2 years to get certified.

[gpc3]

yes, well said, thanks (not that my frustrations are relieved).

[Robert schmitt]

As for the notion that MOST coaches out there know what their doing.........thats a tough one to swallow.

The school I coach at, had two coaches that were strictly vault coaches. One was a former hs vaulter, the other was a 15'4" vaulter from the early 70's. I was flabber ghasted when I went to a practice and the vaulters were vaulting (and bending the pole, sometimes making the pit) holding the pole with the bend 180 degrees from the way it should be!!! .

[nematic]

Just something I've been wondering about, what does the weight rating on the pole really mean? Is it just a certain percentage of the maximum force that can be applied to the pole before it will break? And while we're on the subject of pole aspects, about what angle will your average pacer or ucs pole go to before it becomes a plurality?

[gpc3]

That's the problem - the weight rating is more problem than help. A really fast, strong vaulter with great technique can snap a pole 'correctly' rated at his weight. A weak, slow vaulter with horrible technique won't be able to bend a 'correctly' rated pole at all. Bubka bent his pole at least 10 degrees past horizontal and sets a world record. A girl vaulter bends her pole about 45 degrees and gets disqualified because it's 'under' her weight! Flex numbers (if they were consistent from company to company) are the only way to tell what pole you should be on next. The deaths last year were NOT due to weight ratings, but other factors.

Stop the insanity!

[Robert schmitt]

Bubka bent his pole at least 10 degrees past horizontal and sets a world record. A girl vaulter bends her pole about 45 degrees and gets disqualified because it's 'under' her weight!

I understand what you are saying and agree. A seventeen foot pole can bend more than a 12' pole however, without being in danger of breaking.

[Russ]

So, how can an average guy or gal get ahold of the flex chart? Does Gill provide it to the public? Can someone post it here? For example, if I want to get the softest 13.5-175 possible, what flex number do I ask for? If I want to get the stiffest 13.5-170 what flex number do I ask for?

I hope this doesn't seem crazy, but as a consumer I'd like to know what the numbers are (i.e., the ranges from alpha to omega for each length and weight pole) so that I don't just blindly ask for a pole (like a 1470) and not be stuck with whatever the retailer decides to send when he pulls it off of the rack.

I recall that when I bought my 1st Cata-Pole (1972 I think), my Dad was visiting Calif. (we lived in N.C.) and he went to the plant in Costa Mesa and specifically asked for the softest 1435 possible (this would be the first pole that I learned to bend). They gave him a 9.75 as I recall (which translates to about a 24.765 today).

My point is that it would be helpful for average vaulters to have the flex number ranges available to them in chart form so that they can make better reasoned/informed decisions about what poles to buy. Given the price tags ($300 +) it seems like a reasonable request.

[Decamouse]

13'6 170 - have one with a 16.4 flex and one with a 16.9 flex - yes the 16.9 is softer - but also what kind of pole is it - one is a skypole and one is a Pacer FX so they will bend a little different and feel a little different. What is the range for a 170 - since there is no industry standard it could change from manufacturer to manufacturer - plus they may not measure them the same - so when in doubt ask the wookie

[natdog]

Pretty good explanation on flex numbers. I understand completely. BUT,what if you want to move up in pole length? You wouldn't want to move from a 14-0 #20.0 to a 14-6 #19.4 Right.
So what is the rule of thumb on flex numbers when moving to a different length of pole? Because the scale changes!

[Decamouse]

Switch lengths and flex numbers is a little more involved and is something I am reasearching now - First you must assume you are carrying enough energy to get in on a longer pole - speed/plant etc. - the easiest why to look at it right now would be if you are topping the pole and blowing through - you should be able to go longer and maiontain the same wgt rating - now what flex number that is varies depending on the transition - so - Back to what I said earlier - I am trying to get a better way to help people with these transitions