Differences in Pole Brands?

[Biased Carp]

I'm sure there is a thread already started about this but i couldn't seem to find it. basically I'm looking for the differences in brands, which are more forgiving, have a consistent bend, quick roll over, easier bend, weight of pole, stiffness, etc. The poles I'm most curious about are:

UCS spirt
Gill Pacer FX
Gill Skypole
Gill Skypole Carbon
Gill Carbon mystic
Gill Carbon FX
ESSX Recoil
Altius Fiberglass
Altius Carbon extreme
Altius Carbon Elite
Rocket Carbons

[Decamouse]

Depending on who you talk to this could be a short book

Do a short version - four different companies make the poles you listed:

UCS Spirit - s glass pole, widen the short side or top of the trapezoid (sail piece) to add stiffness - then mandrel size (bigger diameter) - very well established - consistent - both men's and women's indoor and outdoor records set using these poles --

Gill - produces Pacer FX, Skypole, Skypole Carbon, Carbon Mystic, Carbon FX and private labels Rocket and Rocket Carbon

Pacer FX - s glass pole, Gill varies the height of sail to adjust stiffness so the short and long side of the trapezoid stays the same. Designed to behave in a similar manner as Spirit (Spirit and Pacer came from the AMF-Pacer family tree) - tend to be slightly heavier than Spirit

Skypole - s glass - sail has a lower center to give a stiffer lower section and softer handle - makes pole roll a little easier - (hear people talking about higher bend)
Skypole Carbon - similar design/sail as Skypole except some s glass replaced with carbon which makes slightly lighter and will quicker slightly

Carbon Mystic and Carbon FX - similar in concept to Pacer FX regarding changing sail hgt - both have significantly shorter short side of the trapezoids and have carbon body wrap and spiral wrap - less forgiving of a pole at takeoff - quicker return

Essx Recoil -- since UST entered the picture has improved the consistency of the product - similar sail design to Skypole with lower center - people who have them really like them and have seen good results

Altius - tend to be a little heavier - weight ratings do not match the big players as closely so if switch between brands may find some to feel softer - price makes them attractive depending on your situation - also has some of it roots in the original Skypole sail design family tree

Rocket - private label pole that is more or less an e-glass Skypole and the same for Rocket Carbon -- lower in price than the skypole and private labeled

Since until your level of vaulting become consistent enough your vault has as much variance if not more than the pole designs (more about getting proper length and stiffness so you vault safely) --

More detailed info for the anal engineer types see link -
http://www.decamouse.com/sitebuildercon ... 110127.pdf

[Biased Carp]

wow very informative read thanks a ton!

[GasPasser]

On this topic, what of the placement of the weight label/max hand-hold tape? I'm not an expert, but other than Spirit, they are at/near the top of the pole. Spirit is about 6-7 inches from the top. I know HS rules don't allow holding above that mark, not sure if that applies to college, Masters can hold above (or jump on bamboo if they want).

The question I have is: Is the Spirit weight and flex rating based on holding just below the weight label as I suspect the others are that have theirs at the top of the pole?

The reason I ask is that we have a mixed bag of poles (manufactures, weight, length), and as a rough guide I use the 6"= 10 lbs "rule" when looking at moving to another pole of different length. However, I feel this may not work when one pole is a Spirit and the other isn't. For example, a Spirit 13-145 has a max handgrip of 12'6". A Pacer 13-150 has a max handgrip of nearly 13'. Based on the 6 to 10 rule, and the different max handgrips, I'd say that there is more than a 5 lb. difference between these poles keeping the grip the same. If the Spirit 145 weight rating is based on the 13' pole length (rather than the labeled max handgrip), then even though it says 145, it then should effectively feel like a 13-135 Pacer that is being held 6" from the top (12'6"). Holding at 12'6" on the 13-150 Pacer, the Pacer would probably feel like a 12'6"-160 (150 + 10) - a 15 lb increase from the 13-145 Spirit, rather than the expected 5 lb increase (if the Spirit truly is a 145 @ 12'6").

Can someone help me understand this correctly if I have it wrong. Thanks!

[Decamouse]

Weight label and placement only matter to High School -- old farts like us can hold anywhere that allows us to get safely into the pit.

[GasPasser]

Weight label and placement only matter to High School -- old farts like us can hold anywhere that allows us to get safely into the pit.

Uh, yea.....but that wasn't my question.

Let me ask it a different way. On a Spirit Pole, given that the weight band (and max grip) is a good 6" from the top of their poles, how do I compare them to a non-spirit pole that has its weight band (and max grip) at the top? Lets say I have a 13-145 Spirit and a 13-145 Pacer. The weight band for the Spirit is at 12'6", and the Pacer's is at the top. I can't compare their flex numbers since they are different manufactures doing different flex tests, but are these the same pole at comparable grips and Spirit just adds a margin of safety for their own liability by placing the max handgrip tape lower? Or, is the Spirit only a 145 when held at 12'6", and when held at the top would be more like a 13-135 Pacer?

I know max hand-holds and weight ratings matter in HS competition and no where else, I'm just trying to figure out how to bridge gaps in pole progressions to get to bigger poles.

[Decamouse]

Easiest way is to ignore the label placement - a 13ft 145 Spirit and a 13 ft 145 Pacer would feel almost identical if held right at the top - so for you the 13-145 Spirit to the 13-150 Pacer is the next pole up - just our of curiosity - flex numbers- 13-145 should be around 20.5 and 13-150 should be around 19.5

[rainbowgirl28]

Easiest way is to ignore the label placement - a 13ft 145 Spirit and a 13 ft 145 Pacer would feel almost identical if held right at the top - so for you the 13-145 Spirit to the 13-150 Pacer is the next pole up - just our of curiosity - flex numbers- 13-145 should be around 20.5 and 13-150 should be around 19.5

The weight rating and flex number have nothing to do with the weight label placement. Like Decamouse said, you should ignore it when it comes to comparing poles.

[GasPasser]

Perfect, thanks to both of you for helping me understand that. I'm glad to know it works that way - keeps the math easy too!

[superpipe]

Small correction to UCS Spirit. All of their poles are E-Glass until your reach 14' 7's at around 175 or so. After that, they go to S-Glass. I've requested some lighter 14' 7's in S-Glass and paid a premium. Overall, doesn't matter that much below 14' 7's, but would still be nice if they offered it. S-Glass is better as it's stronger and allows for smaller diameters and lighter poles. More expensive than E-Glass though.

[ras]

Decamouse wrote:
Easiest way is to ignore the label placement - a 13ft 145 Spirit and a 13 ft 145 Pacer would feel almost identical if held right at the top - so for you the 13-145 Spirit to the 13-150 Pacer is the next pole up - just our of curiosity - flex numbers- 13-145 should be around 20.5 and 13-150 should be around 19.5

Interesting! So a borderline high school athlete would have a harder (approx 10 pound) time "making weight" with a Spirit than any other pole/brand?

[Decamouse]

Interesting way to look at it -- but I prefer to look at it from do not worry about bending the pole - when you learn to take off well and swing - the wgt label and its location is seldom the issue - only time it might be is when pole selection is extremely limited