Longer poles and more time

[jbelokur]

I've been looking at a lot of video and can't help but notice that great athletes who are dedicated to the sport but are using 14'-14"6 pole are limited by the amount of time that they have to both execute proper technique and or to transfer the maximum amount of energy into the pole from takeoff through the push off. When I watch world class vaulters it seems like those extra two or so feet of pole gives them that extra time. For instance, can you show me a video of someone getting 3'-4' of clearance over there hand hold with a 14' pole? Does the shorter pole have limitations that will make it impossible to employ the Petrov model?

Josh

[altius]

"Does the shorter pole have limitations that will make it impossible to employ the Petrov model?"

Simple answer - NO!

[jbelokur]

Simple answer - NO!

Would you mind giving me the long answer?

[altius]

"For instance, can you show me a video of someone getting 3'-4' of clearance over there hand hold with a 14' pole?"

Vaulters on non flexible poles in the 1940s gripped around 3.80/12' and managed differentials of 36" plus. That would suggest that time is not a factor.

Also - it is better to think of the Petrov/BUBKA model because although many athletes have mastered elements of the model, no one else, to my knowledge, has matched Bubby - unfortunately.

[powerplant42]

Behold, the core of the Petrov model:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH-pAXnlmkA

It is indeed startling to note that the difference in push-off has only increased marginally with the introduction of the flexible pole... The "fling" effect of the pole (if it's a very low flex) gets a vaulter an extra 3 inches or so on average. It's the grip height that has increased the record.

Anyways, the time spent on the pole is about the same if you're gripping at the right spot, be it a 10' 100 or a 17'6" 250. There may be some additional time on the longest of poles, but we are talking hundreths of seconds. This is not something to be concerned with.

[dj]

good morning,

there is actually "less" time on the pole (faster swing time) on Bubka's and other world class jumpers jumping 5.90 plus...

i have an article published in 1983 that i received about Bubka's jumps and which help me "re-think and use to change some of my thinking in 1985... i had previously published a personal technical article in 1980/81 after watching Volkov train and jump in 1979....

about the aspects (physics) of a 19 foot jump which had not been jumped at the time and I went back and compared what i had said "then" (1980) to what this article by V. Mansvetov - Legkaya Atletika. 12:16-17, 1983 was saying.

(i re-published this article in 1985 in a newsletter i founded called 19+Plus... it made it through 7 quarter issues before i changed jobs and had to "hand off" to Lane Lore who handed of to Doug and Bob Fraley.. can't remember the name of the newsletter they used.........

anyway...

physics... longer swing in a faster time = higher (potential) above grip...

this article along with McGinnis's science showed me i was focused on some things correctly that were not totally accepted in the USA and some "thinking "needed to change..

one of those was the swing speed... Tom Tellez/Mike Tully/Guy Kochel/Earl Bell "all" knew they needed (and that physics demanded it) to start the swing as (before) the toe leaves the ground... there thinking was "we are Tall and need to swing faster just to "line up with the pole" they were correct but it wasn't because they were "tall"... and they didn't need to "line up with the pole" which means they were stopping the swing action and hurting their over all jump height........

the science shows that a 20 foot jump took 1.43/1.45 seconds from toe leaving the ground to maximum height above the bar.... This is one of the things Tim Mack did that was "Bubka like"... if that meant he "pulled" with the bottom hand as agapit/Roman said .. believe it if it fits the physics.. but let me caution you...and not about the "pull" - i think that is possible and will "happen" automaticlly if others "parts" are correct.... NO part of the vault works "to the physucs (in other words a correct swing doesn't happen "exactly" unless you have a correct "freer" takeoff.. a correct takeoff doesn't happen unless you have a correct plant.. a correct plant doesn't happen!!! see where this goes.... to the first step.. ...

I will re-type that Russian article today and post it in another thread so we can discuss it...

like i said i changed my coaching... you may find you can do the same..

I takes you to the "physics' where I'm convinced Alan and others have been trying to take you… but you have to figure out the "Q's" to help your coaching.. to help your athletes or your jumping..

First you have to understand the fundamental physics… of… Run-Plant-Swing

I will post the Article and we can go from there..

dj

[jbelokur]

Cool. Thanks for the replies.
Josh