3 left session yesterday...

[billy_pacheco7]

i think as far as overstriding at the last step goes... just move it up a shoe...you gotta think about it. You already have a great outstep... it looks like your overstridding to be on. An outstep for you seems to be good right now. I say just move it up a shoe and try not to stretch at take-off. Think about jumping UP at take-off. This psychological thought will help you automatically help you quick'n up at the end.

As far as "striking on the ball of your foot goes," I can't really say i fully agree with this thought. Sorry Kirk, nothing to disregard your idea...but something else to just think about. I read a lot about Dan Path and his theories about sprinting/ jumping...and i also worked with a few guys that have been training with him - his thought is always to stay dorsiflexed. There is no possible way to jump of the ball of you foot. You automatically land dorsiflexed, then roll of the foot to the ball of the foot, then it transitions all the way untill you have complete extension off the toe (which then lines you up for the propper position - thje line that extends from your head, to your spine, to your a**, to your hamstring, and to your toe). If you focus on landing on the ball of the foot, then jumping off the ball of the foot, you will not get the full explosive potential power thaat you can get out of your jump. When you run competely tall, and in the perfect sprinting posture (under the center of gravity), you are forced to strike dorsiflexed. It is impossible to strike on the ball of your foot.

Look at photos 42-48 on this site: http://www.athleticscoaching.ca/UserFiles/File/Sport%20Science/Biomechanics/Sprints%20&%20Endurance%20Events/Sprints/NSA%20Photosequence%20Carl%20Lewis%20200m%20start.pdf

[BadMotherVaulter]

Kirk, I'll search that up and get on it.

As far as the overstride... Kirk, I don't want you to think I'm arguing or anything with you, I'm just asking questions to understand it better. Sounds like I'm supposed to be taking off the ground like a long jumper, from what you guys are saying... going for some serious height and distance. I know i was always told to put a big powerful jump at the end of my approach, and i even coach my kids to envision themselves jumping all the way over the pit at their takeoff to try and emphasize a powerful jump. But if i'm trying to make a powerful jump, it seems to be like a person's natural motion to power off a jump leg is to have it firm on the ground to push off of. I even went and looked at videos of elite long jumpers, they all seem to overstride just on their last step to be able to power off their jump leg... Like Saladino: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu2W3utPPw8

Now, to be CRYSTAL clear, I'm not saying vaulters should jump like that... that was a HUGE overstride. What i'm getting at is that if i've got it in my head that i'm going to jump up REALLY hard off the ground (Billy, like what you're saying...) my body is going to want to have that foot good and under me so i can power off of it. BUT, we know that's not the right way... so what SHOULD i be thinking about as i'm just about to the box, about to take off? Because if i'm thinking about trying to jump up really hard, I'm going to want to do that with my foot planted really well to power off of, which would cause the overstride. (I really hope you're following me on this.) If i keep thinking about the same thing, i'm just going to keep overstriding.

That aside...

I did a ton of pole runs yesterday from 6 lefts... working with a mid mark and trying to improve my pole drop. I got some video of it, take a look and tell me what you think... Grip is at 13'5" Mid is at 45' and there's an orange mark at what DJ's chart says my takeoff should be; i was consitently quite a bit out.

Pole Run 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR_PA8JukaE
Pole Run 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLZOow9GCdI

Also, I did some swing-ups and grabbed a video of them... I think they're pretty telling. If you watch close, my drive knee kind of stops driving, it just sits there and lets the trail leg catch up to it (which keeps my hips down, makes them pause) I'm thinking this may be the culprit of my crappy inversion, along with how i'm taking off the ground and my swing. Your thoughts?

Swing-Ups: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEf7IGhwHWE

[powerplant42]

know i was always told to put a big powerful jump at the end of my approach, and i even coach my kids to envision themselves jumping all the way over the pit at their takeoff to try and emphasize a powerful jump. But if i'm trying to make a powerful jump, it seems to be like a person's natural motion to power off a jump leg is to have it firm on the ground to push off of. I even went and looked at videos of elite long jumpers, they all seem to overstride just on their last step to be able to power off their jump leg...

Doing this is what killed the end of my outdoor season with a hamstring tear... I overstrided into take-off and really jumped hard off my leg. That is completely UNnatural.

What you want is a longer penultimate and a SHORTER take-off stride. Check out DJ's chart! It's right there! If your MID is 45 then your penultimate should be 6'1" and your take-off stride should be 5'5".

Pole runs: What can you tell me about the very first stride you take, especially in your second video?

Swing-ups: I'll leave most of the analysis for KB, but to me it looks like you're bending your trail-leg too much. And DRIVE that knee UP OVER YOUR HEAD! Try that as a cue.

[BadMotherVaulter]

Doing this is what killed the end of my outdoor season with a hamstring tear... I overstrided into take-off and really jumped hard off my leg. That is completely UNnatural.

I agree, it's not the right thing... but if i'm thinking about jumping really powerfully, that is what's going to happen. Sooo i need to mentally approach the takeoff a bit differently than what i've been doing. Think about chopping my last stride a bit and staying on my toe... i won't get as good/powerful of a jump up into the air though, it would seem.

What you want is a longer penultimate and a SHORTER take-off stride. Check out DJ's chart! It's right there! If your MID is 45 then your penultimate should be 6'1" and your take-off stride should be 5'5".

Saw that on the chart, no way to measure how i'm doing though... I practice alone for the most part and the only coaching i get is online. All i know is that i was out on my takeoffs during all the pole runs, but that the chart's takeoff mark of 10'8" seemed really really far in for me if i was just standing with the pole above my head at 10'8"... almost had to lean back to be able to have my toe there

Pole runs: What can you tell me about the very first stride you take, especially in your second video?

I don't know? I'm up on my toes sprinting, with a slight forward lean and driving knees... Heck, I thought i was doing pretty good.

[powerplant42]

Compare the frame at 7.0 seconds in your second pole run video with 17.9 seconds in this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ34Pc-1 ... re=related

What differences can you see?

[BadMotherVaulter]

Compare the frame at 7.0 seconds in your second pole run video with 17.9 seconds in this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ34Pc-1 ... re=related

What differences can you see?

I'm leaned more forward?

[BadMotherVaulter]

Also... I vaulted again today for two hours solid from 3 lefts, all i did was think about not reaching out on my take-off... Now my takeoff is better i guess... i'm still reaching out some but i couldn't even swing when i was doing this. At ALL. I don't like it...

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqn7nrXr0VU

[powerplant42]

I say it's all a function of your very first step being out of balance. Your run is out of control... in the bad way. That makes the pole carry a compensatory action which makes the long take-off stride feel natural.

You probably couldn't swing because it felt so different. Give it another session or two!

[KirkB]

I"ll get to your nesw vids later ... but just to answer this question for now ...

... Sounds like I'm supposed to be taking off the ground like a long jumper ...

That's right.

... But if i'm trying to make a powerful jump, it seems to be like a person's natural motion to power off a jump leg is to have it firm on the ground to push off of. ... i've got it in my head that i'm going to jump up REALLY hard off the ground (Billy, like what you're saying...) my body is going to want to have that foot good and under me so i can power off of it. BUT, we know that's not the right way... so what SHOULD i be thinking about as i'm just about to the box, about to take off? Because if i'm thinking about trying to jump up really hard, I'm going to want to do that with my foot planted really well to power off of, which would cause the overstride. I really hope you're following me on this. ...

I'm following you. What you MUST avoid at all costs is any BRAKING action. If you heel hits down hard, you're BRAKING. That's grossly inefficient ... what I call LEAKAGE. It's like you're giving the energy generated from your run a conduit thru which to leak thru your takeoff foot and into the ground. Ugh! The name of the game on the takeoff is ENERGY CONSERVATION!

If you really feel that you must PLANT your foot big-time (heavy heel plant), then you're missing the point ... and so is Billy. I know this might sound contradictory, but you need to be light on your feet on your entire run, minimizing the time your feet are on the ground. THIS INCLUDES THE TAKEOFF! On your takeoff, your foot should stay on the ground SLIGHTLY longer ... but not much longer!

If your takeoff "step" is more like a "planting of the heel", then it's TOO MUCH! Easier said than done, I realize. But your primary objective needs to be "minimal time on the ground", and your SECONDARY objective is to JUMP as hard as you can. Don't sacrifice the first objective for the second. I guess I didn't make that clear in my original post.

BTW Billy ... it CAN be done! You just need to work on it ... including strengthening calf muscles.

Kirk

[BadMotherVaulter]

I"ll get to your nesw vids later ...

Let me know when you do... I can't even begin to describe how ridiculous that entire session was. I did literally EVERYTHING i could think of. I tried chopping my steps, running only on my toes, but nothing major happened. The newest video i posted was of me running only on my toes. It felt like it was killing any momentum i had and i was just sinking into the pole every time. Two straight hours of plugging away at this from 3 lefts made me want to destroy things at the end of the practice.

As far as an analogy goes though, i should be THINKING like a long jumper, with the intention of jumping up and far.... but not literally taking off like one, because they all plant their feet BIGTIME at takeoff.

If you really feel that you must PLANT your foot big-time (heavy heel plant), then you're missing the point ... and so is Billy. I know this might sound contradictory, but you need to be light on your feet on your entire run, minimizing the time your feet are on the ground. THIS INCLUDES THE TAKEOFF! On your takeoff, your foot should stay on the ground SLIGHTLY longer ... but not much longer!

If your takeoff "step" is more like a "planting of the heel", then it's TOO MUCH! Easier said than done, I realize. But your primary objective needs to be "minimal time on the ground", and your SECONDARY objective is to JUMP as hard as you can. Don't sacrifice the first objective for the second. I guess I didn't make that clear in my original post. Kirk

I get what you're saying. I mean, it doesn't feel like i'm planting my heel... I'm not trying to. In fact, i'm trying NOT to. On a good note though, if you watch the video really closely i'm reaching but by the time it actually strikes, my foot is flat and it rolls through pretty quickly. If anyone wants the quicktime file of that first jump, let me know because you can slow it down much better with that. Seems to me like i just need to be running up on the balls of my feet more.

[powerplant42]

BMV, how much work do you do in the sand?

[BadMotherVaulter]

BMV, how much work do you do in the sand?

None at all right now.