Need some help

[Downcastnut]

Hello, So I have been vaulting for 1 year and I wanted some feedback on what I need to work on during practice.

Age: 15
Gender: male
Pole: I weigh 148 and use a 160lbs 13'6'' pole trying to transition to a 14' 155lbs pole (use the 13'6'' in the vid)
Grip: Top of the pole
Height: In the video I am jumping 12'

not the best angle but its in slo-motion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSZH9szO ... re=channel

Yes, I know i fall off the pit....

Any feedback or drills I can do at home to help me to get 12' 6''? Thanks

[KirkB]

Any feedback or drills I can do at home to help me to get 12' 6''?

Next time, try to vid your entire run. I suspect that there's some major improvements that can be made to your run and plant, but without seeing it, I can't advise.

Your plant/takeoff is quite a bit under. I can see the pole bend well before you jump off the ground. That's the most important thing for you to fix right how. Try to take off from directly under your top hand. If you do that, you'll be able to JUMP off the ground on takeoff ... rather than just letting the pole pick you off the ground, like you're doing now.

Also take a look at where your top hand is in relation to your head. It's quite far behind it. It should be almost directly above it. You need to fix that.

When you finally leave the ground, your body angle is backwards-leaning. It should be slightly forwards-leaning. Your lead leg is straight and your trail leg is bent. It should be the other way around ... lead leg bent at the knee (you need to DRIVE the lead knee forwards), and trail leg straight. The straight trail leg is needed in order to swing it as low and as powerfully as you can. But bending it at the knee, you shorten the radius of your trail leg swing, which causes you to lose a lot of power. To fix your body angle, you need to takeoff from further back, as I explained. This will be a MAJOR improvement to your technique!

You then swing to what's called the "dreaded V". That's when you get stuck in the "flatback" position with your hips low and your hands and feet high (the "V"). The problem with this position is that it's a passive position where you don't do much ... except hang on for dear life. You want to ... and you need to ... CONTINUALLY raise your hips ... but you don't know how - you're "stuck in the dreaded V".

The answer to this is to fix your run, pole drop, plant, takeoff, and downswing. This will give you a powerful upswing, and then you won't be stuck in the V. I don't mean to make it sound easy to fix - it's not. You need to work hard and work smart to improve your technique ... all the way from the run to the bottom half of your vault (everything up to but excluding the V). If you do that, then you won't be "stuck in the V". Instead, you'll be swinging upside down, and extending straight up your pole ... up and over 13-0 or more!

I suggest you search PVP for the various key words that I've given you here, and research the many threads that talk about these technical faults. Then look for the drills that are recommended to fix them.

Above all, start from the START of your run, and work your way forwards to the V. That's how to turn the V into a Petrov Model inversion/extension that will allow you to FLY over the bar!

You really need a brick-and-mortar coach to talk you thru all this. If you have a coach, discuss what I've advised with him, and get his feedback on it. If you don't have a coach, talk it up with your fellow vaulters - at your school and when you compete against other schools. Most vaulters will help you to improve ... it's a brotherly fraternity!

Kirk

[Downcastnut]

Thankyou for all of your help! I will definitely talk to my coach about those points. And it all is starting to make sense. Recently ive been hurting my back alot. I think its because I am under and ultimately get jerked off the ground instead of actually jumping. I really appreciate the reply.

and this isnt all of the entire run but its from the middle on an 11' 6 vault

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6b8TEdd ... re=channel

I know what you mean by being wayyyy under. The only problem is that I feel like im not going to make it into the pit if Im out and im ultimately going to have to go down a couple poles...Will being out(from what I am vaulting from) actually make it easier to get in?

[tsorenson]

You aren't doing too bad for a 1-year vaulter. It's hard to get used to the idea that improvement doesn't always happen continuously, but if you keep plugging away at the drills, you will succeed. Most HS vaulters spend WAY too much time vaulting from their long run on their big pole in practice, and don't spend enough time doing the drills that will teach your body how to vault properly on the runway. I always tell kids that the runway is just where you "put it all together", not where you make changes in your technique...quite the contrary, actually, since people are likely to reinforce bad habits by taking too many long-run jumps. I don't know for sure if your practices have a strong emphsis on drills, but I know that I have to really work hard to keep kids doing drills at practice instead of just vaulting over and over again.

Advice #1: go to one of Rick Baggett's camps in Oregon City. He is right in your neighborhood and one of the best coaches anywhere. www.willametestriders.com

Advice #2: not as helpful as advice #1, but some things to think about:
Taking off "out" is only good if you have the proper technique to use it...start by doing 3 and 4 step stiff pole drills and learning the advantage of taking off "out" and stretching into your extension, with a rigid body and an emphasis on moving the pole. Only after you start moving stiff poles with big grips should you attempt to swing into inversion on this drill. It will take time to teach your body how to use the proper takeoff point, and you can work on it on small poles with short runs until you are very consistent, only then will you be able to "fix it" on your long run.

When doing pole runs (you do lots of these every practice, right?), try to not touch the tip of the pole to the ground until you have taken off, and land on your opposite foot to encourage your trail leg to stay long. You need to learn how to jump up at takeoff without the support of the box.

Learn the proper swing mechanics by doing highbar drills every day, with an emphasis on feeling the power that can be added by swinging long through the chord of the pole. Highbar drills are hard and will take you a lot of work to master...sometimes rings can help teach kids how to swing properly at first and then the skill can be transferred to the highbar. Put in the time and you will improve! Becca has great examples of all the highbar drills on this website...go to the main page and look for "drills and skills". Ropes are also good, and a sturdy tree branch can work in a pinch.

Go and punt a football as far as you can with your left foot...do you want your leg straight or bent at impact? This "kick-whip" with the leg extended through the chord is what will get you inverted. In addition to being under, your swing is too passive and gives you no chance to cover the pole while it is still bent.

Good luck, go see Rick

Tom

[KirkB]

... and this isnt all of the entire run but its from the middle on an 11' 6 vault ... Will being out (from what I am vaulting from) actually make it easier to get in?

Your pole drop and plant didn't seem to bad from that angle!

Try to film from square to the side of your takeoff point. It will be easier to see it from there. And film the entire run on each jump ... but not any of the pause, standing at the end of the runway.

I think this is the first time I've ever coached someone on how to land in the pit ... but SAFETY FIRST! ...

You have an interesting landing ... I kept watching ... waiting for you to fall off the back of the pit again ... LOL ... maybe you should just purposely fall down on your butt when you land ... instead of feet first. Actually, it's a LITTLE dangerous to land that way ... I've seen vaulters sprain their ankles that way. On your landing, even if you hit feet-first, let your knees buckle, and roll back on your butt and then onto your back. That might keep you from tripping and falling off the pit.

Not sure what you mean by "easier to get in". What do you mean by "in"?

Kirk

[Tincup1215]

I'm with Kirk, dont' ever land on your feet! Have had 1 athlete do that and he sprained his ankle pretty good. Also, taking off under kills your swing as kirk points out. Planting tall (with your top hand directly above you) and taking off strong with your left foot underneath your hip, not out in front of you will really help your swing-up so you don't get stuck in the dreaded V

[vault3rb0y]

When you jump off the ground, try to drive your drive-leg foot straight through your body, with your knee going up. Right now your drive-knee is driving IN toward the pit, instead of UP. The more UP you jump, the better. I agree with everything everyone else is saying, and some quick ques to help you get there:

1.) drive your knee up and keep it driving up while you swing

2.) Just UP INTO the pole with your hands stretched tall.

3.) Press both hands UP once you leave the ground. Then, when you start to swing, put all your weight on your top hand (dont use your bottom hand to pull/push).

#3 will help you keep your hips from getting sucked under at take off. Pressing upwards forces your hips to stay behind the pole. It's a quick fix to hide the REAL technical issues, because at this point in the season it will be very hard to re-learn your take off. I wouldn't suggest trying to change anything drastic until next pre-season (working on free take off, etc) because at this point you gotta work with what you got. Sure, you can start doing grass vaults/sand vaults/free take off drills right now, but it will take at the very least a couple of weeks for the neurological changes to show up in your actual vault, and at this point i think you will be better served taking that time to just VAULT. Just keep your hands pressing tall at the plant, and really drive UP off the runway, keeping your hips back behind the pole more before your swing. Unless you still have a good 5-6 weeks of vaulting left, i would advice against going "back to ground zero" to re-learn how to vault. If you have that much time, however, then definitely start trying to get used to jumping up tall before the pole hits the back of the box.

[vault3rb0y]

Just watched the second video, 2 more comments:

1.) hard from that angle, but it actually looks like you swing around your top hand pretty well. Any gymnastics background? Most vaulters take a while to learn to not PULL with the bottom hand.

2.) I guess some ideas on getting yourself more comfortable with a more outside take off would be helpful too....:


Sand vaults- Use a grip 6-12" lower than your pop-up grip, and concentrate on jumping off the ground before the pole goes into the sand. The point of the sand is to allow you to let the pole tip hit the sand wherever you want, because in a pop-up the box won't move. Literally feel yourself in the air before the pole goes into the sand, and use your hands to keep your hips back behind the pole once the pole starts rolling toward vertical. You should be fully outstretched with a drive knee going UP and your foot UNDER YOUR BUTT when the pole hits the sand. Try 1,2,3 lefts.

Pop-Ups- this is the bread and butter of pole vaulting. Get a low enough grip that you can practice fully leaving the ground before the pole hits the back of the box. Same concept as sand vaults, but now its in the box, So you are forced to control your steps to be off the ground before the pole hits the back. A key is bringing your hands up sooner than you think you have to, and shortening your very last step to allow you to jump UP more and be outside your mark. If you stay behind the pole well doing this, your hips won't get sucked under as easily. Keep raising your grip/moving your step back until you are almost getting stuck at vertical. Just keep practicing and learning what it feels like to be off the ground, driving UPWARDS before the pole makes contact. You can't do enough of these drills if you really want a perfect take off.

Short run vaults- Find a soft and short pole that allows you to hold only about 3-6" higher than you do for a pop up, that will bend. Work the exact same thing as a pop-up from 3-4 lefts, with a focus on driving UP not IN. Even though the pole bends, the actions off the ground are all the same. Get used to your step being out and your hips being behind the pole when it makes contact. SLOWLY raise your grip/go up poles as long as your technique is not falling apart.

Just getting to a proficient level in sand vaults/pop-ups probably takes 2-4 weeks, and making it right on short-run (flexible) vaults takes another 2-8+ weeks. Theres huge variability on the time it takes to learn these drills correctly based on how quick you pick up on things, but I'm just giving you a sense for the difficulty of these drills, so don't rush through any of them! The best vaulters in the world do these drills on a weekly basis and most are still not perfect. Maybe close, but not perfect. I would suggest sticking with sand vaults/pop ups the first 2 weeks and do at least 8-10 reps on each, 2+ times a week. Then if you feel comfortable, try it with a pole that bends. If you rush through it, you will just go back to your bad habits, so be patient! I will finish with this- i can tell you have the athleticism to jump 13' THIS YEAR, but if you focus on these drills and can execute them right, a year from now you could very well be looking at some 15'+ bars. Good luck!

[Downcastnut]

Thankyou all for your helpfull tips. I will work on these during practice.

And Ive never done gymnastics before. Today all we did was pop-ups and I worked hard on trying to jump before I planted. I also worked on driving my knee upwards instead of outwards, making sure my swing leg was straight.

And what i mean to "in" is make it into the pit and not get sprung back onto the runway....I was afraid i wasn't ready for a change like that. But after today I think it will be fine.

I think I learned not to pull with my bottom hand by doing high bar stuff. If I pulled with my left arm I couldnt do the drills.

[KirkB]

... what i mean by "in" is make it into the pit and not get sprung back onto the runway....I was afraid i wasn't ready for a change like that. But after today I think it will be fine.

JUMPING off the ground ensures that you'll have the pole speed to carry you into the pit. As 3P0 says ... drive the lead knee UP ... not IN.

... I think I learned not to pull with my bottom hand by doing high bar stuff. If I pulled with my left arm I couldnt do the drills.

I love it when a vaulter tells me that they do "highbar stuff" ... and it WORKS!

Now practice your DOWNSWING on the highbar! That would be the part of your highbar swing BEFORE you pass vertical. This simulates the downswing on the pole, BEFORE you pass the chord.

I have a devious purpose for wanting you to get the feel of this on the highbar. Once you discover the power of the downswing, you'll do everything you can ... while planting/taking-off ... to get your body into a good upright posture so that you CAN do a downswing on the pole ... without getting sucked "under".

3P0:

Kirk

[golfdane]

instead of feet first. Actually, it's a LITTLE dangerous to land that way ... I've seen vaulters sprain their ankles that way. On your landing, even if you hit feet-first, let your knees buckle, and roll back on your butt and then onto your back. That might keep you from tripping and falling off the pit.

Kirk

Agree. My son sprained his ankle recently, when he abandoned a jump (off center plant), and landed with weight on the feets (and right between two segments of a DIMA mat).
You can find a vid on youtube of a greek female vaulter (Dimitra Emmanouil) where the ankle is twisted 90 degrees after doing just that. I will spare everyone, and won't post the link (but it should be easy to find searching for "pole vault ankle" (don't go there if you wanna keep your lunch down)).

[Tincup1215]

... my stud freshman landed on his feet after a jump today and sprained his ankle really bad. Swelled up to the size of a golf ball. This thread has bad voodoo and should be deleted immediatly