eeeeggggghhhhhh...UMD meet (1-16-10) 14'6

[joebro391]

well...i'm not happy at all with these jumps. Only good thing about them was that I was taking off, free...but since i was leaning back AND NOT JUMPING UP on every jump...that was nearly pointless. It was my first day from a 7-left approach (for the exception of one practice, on the 12th, last week) in about 10 months, and my absolute first time on a 15-foot pole since june/09. I mean, i thought the jumps were actually worse than they were...but i'm still not happy (guess i'm just coming off a 2-foot+ push-off high )

Every jump was from 7 Lefts from about 91'6, on a 15' 150, holding 13'9 standards at 65cm (video was edited by my coach)

http://www.steinerdeca.com/Lynchburg%20 ... liveri.wmv

Jump 1: free take-off, so i'm honestly not sure what caused the bail-out...I just think i was leaning back and didn't jump UP at take-off...

Jump 2: nice free take-off, but i don't feel that I jumped well enough to utilize it. that, plus some hesitation caused me to get stuck in the dreaded "V" and flop over...and yes...the pole knocked the bar off...HA

Jump 3: better. Not quite as free of a take-off, but I wasn't leaning back much. Still not jumping up and that, plus more hesitation caused me to NOT finish the vault, and once again, just flop over the bar. at least my trail-leg was straight?? or am i just looking for ONE possible thing that wasn't horrible about that vault??

Jump 4: powerful-ish swing, but since i was leaning back and got sucked under the pole (opposed to driving with the chest and jumping up), i got no penetration. Perhaps if I has bothered to finish the vault, I might have not nicked the bar with my chest on the way down (yea, it eventually fell).

Jump 5: leaning back a lot and just flopped over the bar...not too different from the last jump,sadly...i guess i just got luck.

Jump 6: not leaning back so much, a decent snap/swing, but because I "sat on it" (hesitated), I never finished the vault and got no pop out of the pole (and you just can't do that at these heights with this poles/grips)...

Jump 7: same thing as jump 6, more or less

Jump 8: Late plant...

I just felt like one of those vaulters that just grips high and plants and hobbles over (which is what i was virtually doing) haha. {shrugs} any comments?? My coach says it's just a confidence problem and I have to get used to the 15-footers...I hope he's right. let me know what you guys think. -6P

[KirkB]

6P, you got sucked way under on the first one, causing you to abort.

The next two were better ... but you're still under ... at least that seems to be the issue, judging by your lack of forwards lean in the C. Since you were gripping quite high, you muscled over these 2 without much of a smooth swing.

Ditto with your 2 at 14-6.

Your grip seems way too high for the bar ... where's that 24" pushoff that you claim?

I'd like to see you get rid of that "flat back". That's your biggest issue right now ... and you've had that habit ever since I can remember. The way to do that is to lower your grip, get more oomph going in your upswing, and use some of that oomph to apply towards keeping your hips moving up up up ... continuously. Instead, you seem to be pulling your arms up prematurely ... before your hips are aligned with the pole.

Didn't we already discuss all this? So what are you doing ... just raising your grip as high as you can, and the hell with technique ... or what? If you are, I don't understand why. This is just an early, unimportant meet isn't it? So why the high grip? This is the time of the season when you should be working on technique technique technique!

Kirk

[IAmTheWalrus]

I do believe he is staring at the bar as well, keeping his head and shoulders above his hips. This is probably a result of gripping a little too high, and not feeling comfortable committing to the swing, and instead staring down the bar as a reference point to make sure he's in. I agree you should lower the grip a bit.

[joebro391]

Kirk: this is not my choice. i physically cannot get on the 15' pole with a grip lower than 13'9 (the 26" push-off was from the last meet, obviously not this one). If I had my way, I wouldn't even compete for the next few weeks and just work on technique, you should know me by now. Since I blow through the 14' 165 from 6, I can't really use that from a 7 or it's liable to break. I'll try out the 14' 170 we have, but that's a stiff pole for me, which I probably will have to be in a meet to get on anyway (adrenaline)...

I'm not leaping up at take-off, and in accordance with no forwards lean, it's killing me...i'll work on it today from my 5-left approach on the 14' 160...but I'm not sure if that'll fix my leaping problem. Any drills for that? I've been trying to work a penultimate step into my approach, but apparently i either start it too early (slowing me down), or not at all, as in this meet...

I feel lost...and i feel pressured by meets to do things out of a healthy sequence...advice? tips? drills?

-6P

[Pogo Stick]

Kirk: this is not my choice. i physically cannot get on the 15' pole with a grip lower than 13'9 (the 26" push-off was from the last meet, obviously not this one). If I had my way, I wouldn't even compete for the next few weeks and just work on technique, you should know me by now. Since I blow through the 14' 165 from 6, I can't really use that from a 7 or it's liable to break. I'll try out the 14' 170 we have, but that's a stiff pole for me, which I probably will have to be in a meet to get on anyway (adrenaline)...
-6P

If you blow through the 14' 165 from 6 then 14' 170 shouldn't be any problem from 7 lefts. What weight is that 15'? It looks too stiff for you.

[KirkB]

If you blow through the 14' 165 from 6 then 14' 170 shouldn't be any problem from 7 lefts. What weight is that 15'? It looks too stiff for you.

To put this all in perspective, here's a snippet of Johnson's Relative Resistance Chart:

6P's 2010 Poles.JPG (12.29 KiB) Viewed 3346 times

Notice that the 14' 170 and the 15' 150 are the same relative stiffness!

6P, what would happen ... or what did happen ... if you used the 14' 170 with a 13-9 grip?

It seems to me ... after reading the excellent expose of how poles are designed to be gripped in a certain range ... "The stiffness of a pole increases exponentially" thread ... here ... http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18838&p=135956) ... that the 14' 170 gripping 3" below the tip would be better suited for you than the 15' 150 gripping 15" below the tip. No?

And if you LOWER your grip ... to say 13-6 ... then the 14' 170 would be even BETTER.

Since it appears that you need to LOWER your grip a bit ... and you AGREE to this ... I think you should use the 14' 170. So what's the problem? Why are you using the 15' pole?

Kirk

[KirkB]

6P, do I have this right? You cleared your PR ... 14-9 ... with the 14' 165 ... with a 13-3 grip? That's a 26" pushoff ... as you say.

If that's the case ... why are you gripping 13-9 on a 15' 170? Why aren't you gripping in the 13-3 to 13-6 range on either the 14' 165 or 170?

Until you can keep your hips swinging up past the flat back ... ADEQUATELY ... then you should NOT be gripping at 13-9 ... on ANY pole!

Put another way, I think you can probably clear 15-3 with your 14' 165 ... or maybe the 14' 170 ... WITH A 13-6 GRIP ... that would still only be a 29" pushoff ... so why are you trying to get on bigger poles and higher grips until your TECHNIQUE is ready for that?

Can you give me the link to your 14-9 PR ... tell me what pole that's on ... and I'll compare that PR to your current "problem".

Kirk

[rainbowgirl28]

Hey Joebro, maybe you have a soft 165 and a stiff 170 so maybe it feels like a bit of a jump between them, but I agree you're better off trying to make the 14'170 work for you.

[VaultPurple]

quit trying to clear cross bars and start trying to pole vault....

[joebro391]

okay, first, i mis-spoke, slightly. um...where do i start?

POLE INFO: I can JUST land safely into the pit from 6 lefts with a 13'3 grip on a 14' 165 (17.0flex) (but this was before i started driving with my chest). To put it into perspective, i wasn't able to get penetration on a 14' 160 from 5 lefts beforehand (around when i jumped my PR), but now I can crush it from 5. unfortunately, that 14' 165 was back home, with my private coach. Here, at college, we have a 14' 160 (17.8flex) and then the next pole up is a 14' 170 (16.0flex). The pole kinda scares me in practice cause it's a tree-trunk. but perhaps I can get on it during a meet. The 15' 150 was a pole that used to work for me from 8 lefts, last june, where i jumped 14'9 with a 14' grip. LINK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN1MX56M ... re=channel these jumps were crap. I feel that the 15' 150 is a good pole for me from 7 lefts (like in this past meet), BUT...I have to be ON and doing a lot of things well.

KIRK: where have you been? JUST KIDDING I jumped a PR of 15', 2 weeks ago on a 14' 165 (17.0flex) from 6 Lefts with a 13'6 grip (standards at 80cm). LINK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0ywHqvJyZg I feel that in the earlier jumps, I had some flat-back, but for the first attempt at 15', my make at 15' and my second attempt at 15'6 (last jump in video), there was very little, if any flat-back. Like I said (or at least felt), had I been jumping this past saturday, like I had when I jumped 15', the 15' 150 would have been a good pole. I'm going to, at the very least, make my best attempt at opening up at the meet, this weekend, on the 14' 170 with about a 13'6 grip.

VP: ...that's my line haha

TODAY: I spent the day from 5 Lefts on a 14' 160, aiming on putting it all together. I found (even though i knew it was obvious), that when I drove the knee hard (aggressively) and wasn't leaning back at take-off, that everything else happened naturally (big surprise there). Then I started really whipping a straight-trail leg through and finishing the vault, and I was much pleased with the jumps. Wasn't really crushing the pole as much as I had been back home (this 160 is the same flex rating, but just a tad stiffer, perhaps from ware), but near the end of the practice, I was clearing a 15' bungee (moderately clean), with the standards at 80cm, with a 13' grip (jumped with a 13'5 grip back home too). Legs didn't feel so great today either, so maybe that explained not blowing through also.

I'm very happy with how I jumped today (no footage sadly), the question is: can I maintain it from 7 lefts? -6P

[tsorenson]

A strategy that works for me when trying to move back a step and/or up poles: (this sounds a lot like what you are already doing)

-Warm up with your stiff pole drills, focusing on posture, pole drop, staying behind the pole and free takeoff

-take a few short-run vaults (3 or 4 lefts) on a soft pole focusing on all of the above and a long, dynamic swing

-take a few vaults on your pole/run that you are very comfortable with (your 6 step with the 14' 160 or 165) still emphasizing the long, aggressive swing and confident finish

-grab your 15 footer and go back to 7, trying to carry over all the confidence and technique you have built up onto the bigger pole. If your technique falls apart, don't waste your time making the same mistakes over and over on the big pole: go back and take a good one on your smaller pole and/or shorter run, then return to the big pole and try again. Basically, alternate between the run/pole you can always vault well on, and the run/pole you are trying to get comfortable on. This processs helps build confidence, allowing you to translate your technique to the longer approach, without developing bad habits, getting overly frustrated, or wasting runway time. If this strategy works for you, eventually you will be doing this process again when you go back to 8 lefts, or even just when you are moving up a pole. Give this a try and let me know how it works for you.

Good luck, it's very challenging to learn the timing of a longer pole, but you'll get it
Tom

[KirkB]

Forgot about the 15-0 ... maybe if it was 16-0 I might have remembered!

Kirk: this is not my choice. i physically cannot get on the 15' pole with a grip lower than 13'9 (the 26" push-off was from the last meet, obviously not this one). If I had my way, I wouldn't even compete for the next few weeks and just work on technique, you should know me by now. Since I blow through the 14' 165 from 6, I can't really use that from a 7 or it's liable to break. I'll try out the 14' 170 we have, but that's a stiff pole for me, which I probably will have to be in a meet to get on anyway (adrenaline)...

Whenever someone says something is out of their control, I look for ways that it can still be done. "this is not my choice" is a cop-out ... take control of YOUR PV career!

Very confusing about the 14' 165, since it's apparently not at college with you.

... Here, at college, we have a 14' 160 (17.8flex) and then the next pole up is a 14' 170 (16.0flex). The pole kinda scares me in practice cause it's a tree-trunk. but perhaps I can get on it during a meet.

I get the sense that you consider the 14' 170 "heavy" and the 15' 150 "light". This is not true. Look at this NEW snippet of the Relative Stiffness Chart ... with your college poles in yellow ... which shows that they're approximately the same stiffness.

6P's 2010 college poles.JPG (16.53 KiB) Viewed 3279 times

I don't see why you consider the 170 a "tree-trunk" yet the 150 is not ... but then again I can't visually SEE these 2 poles, so maybe they're different brands?

I stand by my earlier suggestion that the 14' 170 is better for a 13-3-ish grip than the 15' 150.

The 15' 150 was a pole that used to work for me from 8 lefts, last june, where i jumped 14'9 with a 14' grip. ... these jumps were crap. I feel that the 15' 150 is a good pole for me from 7 lefts (like in this past meet), BUT...I have to be ON and doing a lot of things well.

K. Your old PR of 14-9 was a 17" pushoff ... and your grip was way too high ... it was just a muscle vault. Nice expirement on how high you can grip without stalling ... but that technique isn't very sustainable on higher bars.

I jumped a PR of 15', 2 weeks ago on a 14' 165 (17.0flex) from 6 Lefts with a 13'6 grip ...

I feel that in the earlier jumps, I had some flat-back, but for the first attempt at 15', my make at 15' and my second attempt at 15'6 (last jump in video), there was very little, if any flat-back. Like I said (or at least felt), had I been jumping this past saturday, like I had when I jumped 15', the 15' 150 would have been a good pole. I'm going to, at the very least, make my best attempt at opening up at the meet, this weekend, on the 14' 170 with about a 13'6 grip.

K. Your new PR of 15-0 was a 26" pushoff ... now we're getting somewhere!

Do you realize that you COMPLETELY missed the PLZ on that jump ... on the LEFT side? Don't do that again! I'm serious ... if you felt a little "off to the side" as you swung, you should have bailed! The PLZ is there for a reason ... STAY HEALTHY! I don't have the answer for this, but you need to figure out why you landed there ... and do something about it to prevent a recurrence. Props on the PR ... but there was something wrong there that needs to be fixed.

The big difference I saw is that with this smaller 14' 165 pole, you were able to swing thru the flat back more-or-less smoothly. THAT'S what you need to do! THAT'S what keeping your grip down will do for you!

TODAY: I spent the day from 5 Lefts on a 14' 160 ... I was clearing a 15' bungee (moderately clean), with the standards at 80cm, with a 13' grip ...

K. That's a 32" pushoff! Nice ... if it was "clean".

6P, I don't know why you're stressing over the 14' 170 ... that's the next pole up for you. You just need to adjust your grip and run a bit for how you feel on meet day. Even in practice, I don't think you need much adrenalin to get on this pole ... I think it's perfect for you.

Just as an aside ... we didn't have bungees in my day ... so each miss (no matter how little we brushed the bar off) was still a miss, which is psychologically discouraging. You had these same misses, yet you called them "moderately clean" ... and were enthused by "making it over". This is good ... wish we had bungees ... they also don't hurt if you fall on them ... [sigh]

Kirk