Practice 1/7/10 - chest drive leads to a happy bottom arm..?

[joebro391]

okay, very exciting time for me. Something that I know I've always been very lacking of: CHEST DRIVE. I've always seen such amazing take-off from vaulters such as Bubka, McMichael, and Sarafian. In turn, I've tried to emulate them, like this take-off my McMichael: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPHdlD8G ... re=related I obviously don't approve of the tuck, but if I can get HIS take-off, and a bubka-like swing...that'd be money

I'll admit that these jumps are BY FAR not my best jumps, but I was only focusing on 1 thing (2 things really, but they complement each other). Chest Drive and Bottom Arm (though the bottom arm is not something that I forced, it just came as a result of better take-off).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1tOhcbFmrM

ROPE DRILL: rising while staying behind the rope, leading with the chest and aggressively pushing off the ground with the trail-leg, ready for a huge snap!

JUMPS: All jumps are from a 5-left approach, around 62'6 with a grip between 13' and 13'3 on a 14' 160 (17.8flex), new pole PR from that run AND I WAS BLOWING THROUGH. you'll notice that the jumps are mostly crap after take-off, but that wasn't the focus so I'm not upset. I had another great practice tonight (1/12/10) and focused on chest + swing/snap

JUMP 1: Probably could have gotten that last step down quicker (looks a bit long to me). Got the plant up EARLY (finally), led with the chest and...I don't know what to say about the bottom arm, but I think it's about "ideal". LOVE THE HIGH BEND. The pole moves forward and mushes (too soft). the rest of the jump falls apart, noticeably, i dropped my drive-knee and tucked. what scares me about that is the fact that i tried so hard to remove stuff like that from my vault but it came back when i started "mixing stuff up"...any thoughts? hopefully it truely was the fact that I was only really focusing on the take-off...

JUMP 2: not a great angle, but i just wanted to show the space between the bottom arm and my head. It goes above my head (NO BLOCKING), allowing for a huge pre-stretch and a SNAP. Better than the last jump, as my swing leg stays relatively straight and long. Pretty high bend on the pole, definitely could have been gripping higher on a stiffer pole.

JUMP 3: Another solid-take off, with the start of a good swing but didn't finish the jump. I noticed a 'sink' in the pole + a lower bend, but since i also landed rather deep (granted that i certainly flagged out), so I probably should have moved to the 14' 165.

NOW...this is totally new territory for me...it'll take some getting used to before I can really finish the vault the way I have been lately, however, I feel with this new ability to drive the chest (which really sets me up for a powerful swing), that i'll be able to grip much higher on much stiffer poles. Let me know what yall think. -6P

[bel142]

morning,

Hey looks fun...

I think the take off looks fun, looks like you are hitting the pole real hard. The fact that you are not getting back on the pole when it is that soft is interesting, even tho that is not what you were training, I think it is interesting... I think the reason why you are not able to get back on it as much as you could have, is because of the torso angle and step at take off, if you can let the pole pull the body forward during the last 3 lefts at the drop, the take off and step if going to be even more out. Putting your torso at a tick of a better forward lean, I am talking about a tiny amount of movement at this point. You will get a few more degrees of swing at the hips allowing more energy to get completely back on the pole. I think if you can polish up the last 3L of your run, the top will take care of its self. If you keep jumping like that, and keep adding 5lbs of fiber glass while staying tight to the pole, eventually you will be coming off the top of the pole like a circus freak.

Good show...

cheers,
bel

[KirkB]

6P, nice to see your progress this year!

... amazing take-off from vaulters such as Bubka, McMichael, and Sarafian. ...

Two things about McMichael ... (1) he lifted his trail leg BACK before he swung it forward ... same as me; and (2) even tho he purposely tucks, he passes thru the flat back in a single frame.

ROPE DRILL: rising while staying behind the rope, leading with the chest and aggressively pushing off the ground with the trail-leg, ready for a huge snap!

OK so far, but why freeze in your takeoff position? Now that you "got" that ... make it more dynamic ... stretch BACK ... then downswing FORWARD! Make it feel like more of a real vault!

JUMPS: ... new pole PR from that run AND I WAS BLOWING THROUGH. you'll notice that the jumps are mostly crap after take-off, but that wasn't the focus so I'm not upset. I had another great practice tonight ... and focused on chest + swing/snap

I realize that you're only focussing on the takeoff and pre-stretch (altho you also say "swing/snap") ... so I won't say much about your flat back ... but if you REALLY get a good downswing and whip, then you're going to just fly thru the flat back position ... even if you're just coasting. I don't see that. I don't see a good downswing/whip (what you call swing/snap). All I see is a good takeoff/pre-stretch.

I've said this before, so I think you "get it" ... mentally at least ... but just as a reminder ... the takeoff, prestretch, downswing, and whip need to be DYNAMIC actions ... that need to be done as QUICKLY as you possibly can. Maybe you're just walking before you begin to run.

So maybe now that you have the STATIC pre-stretch position, you can now start to make that a really quick pop-in/pop-out ACTION. The chest drives in ... then pops out. Simultaneously, the trail leg goes BACK (pre-stretch) ... then whips FORWARD ... at top speed. Yours is rather lethargic. When you "get this", you'll be applying it to your rope drill, rings, and highbar drills. And vice versa ... when you do it on your rope, rings, and highbar drills, then you'll AUTOMAGICALLY do it on the pole ... you won't be able to NOT do it! Like a sprinter in training, EVERYTHING needs to be quick! QUICK! Pop-in ... pop-out!

... definitely could have been gripping higher on a stiffer pole.

Same advice as to Sooch ... learn to whip thru the chord first before you move up poles. You'd be surprised what you can learn on a light pole this way ... and YOU CAN STILL EXTEND TO 12 O'CLOCK ... and still pass thru the flat back in a single frame. It's So-o-o-o-o-o-o much easier to learn this on a soft pole than on a stiff one ... don't pass up this opportunity.

I will caution you this tho ... once you REALLY start to whip that trail leg (pop in/out VIGOROUSLY), you will REALLY start to squash the pole ... so you'll HAVE to move up in poles ... else you'll overbend/break the pole! But again, it's easier to get upside down EARLY on a soft pole ... and remove the tuck ... so just DO IT!

... i'll be able to grip much higher on much stiffer poles.

I would use the PLZ as a guide ... keep it safe. If you're landing further out than the MIDDLE of the PLZ, then you should go up a pole ... otherwise stick with the lighter one. BUT ... if you're REALLY squashing it ... move up.

Kirk

[joebro391]

bel142: I feel I just need to grow comfortable with the change I've made in my technique, and then i'll be able to be as aggressive as I've been lately. tomorrow (today now haha), i'll focus on blending everything together. I'll let you know how it goes!

OK so far, but why freeze in your takeoff position? Now that you "got" that ... make it more dynamic ... stretch BACK ... then downswing FORWARD! Make it feel like more of a real vault!

i did, after those "stay-down" drills. they just weren't caught on tape (i wasn't even aware that the rope drill in the video was captured, until my coach gave me a disk with the footage on it).

I realize that you're only focussing on the takeoff and pre-stretch (altho you also say "swing/snap") ... so I won't say much about your flat back ... but if you REALLY get a good downswing and whip, then you're going to just fly thru the flat back position ... even if you're just coasting. I don't see that. I don't see a good downswing/whip (what you call swing/snap). All I see is a good takeoff/pre-stretch.

don't worry, you'll see a good whip-swing soon

Same advice as to Sooch ... learn to whip thru the chord first before you move up poles. You'd be surprised what you can learn on a light pole this way ... and YOU CAN STILL EXTEND TO 12 O'CLOCK ... and still pass thru the flat back in a single frame. It's So-o-o-o-o-o-o much easier to learn this on a soft pole than on a stiff one ... don't pass up this opportunity.

i agree that technique is certainly easier to work on from a softer pole, but there has to be a good blend between soft and stiff. this pole was too soft because it never stopped traveling forward, meaning i never good do much more than shoot out

I would use the PLZ as a guide ... keep it safe. If you're landing further out than the MIDDLE of the PLZ, then you should go up a pole ... otherwise stick with the lighter one. BUT ... if you're REALLY squashing it ... move up.

agreed. thanks for thee tips Kirk.

-6P

[KirkB]

np

Kirk

[AVC Coach]

My biggest concern is that your swing starts with you tranferring all of your weight to your bottom hand. This causes you to short stroke your swing and keeps you from connecting like you want to on top. I like the way your take-off looks though.

[joebro391]

My biggest concern is that your swing starts with you tranferring all of your weight to your bottom hand. This causes you to short stroke your swing and keeps you from connecting like you want to on top. I like the way your take-off looks though.

Thanks man. any recommendation?? -6P

[vault3rb0y]

Either think about pushing up with your bottom hand while you swing, or leave it neutral. You will have to be a little more patient with your swing, because it takes a little more time to invert when you dont pull. Instead, concentrate on swinging LONG and on using your core to invert instead of just your arms.

You can practice this on the rings by pushing your bottom hand up to create some slack while you swing.

Also, on the rope vaults i've seen you doing, finish that take off and then give a little swing (but dont invert for safety sake) with your bottom hand pressing up to create slack.

When you do it right, the pole rolls right through the pit. Dont be suprised if you go through 2-3 poles as you perfect this.

[KirkB]

My biggest concern is that your swing starts with you tranferring all of your weight to your bottom hand. This causes you to short stroke your swing and keeps you from connecting like you want to on top. I like the way your take-off looks though.

... any recommendation??

How does a highbar specialist do a one-armed giant?

First he learns how to do it two-handed, then he gradually beefs up the weight he can withstand on one arm until he gets there. This might take years. Another answer is that while he's doing tricks with longitudinal twists ... and other training, he's constantly getting his one-armed giant arm stronger and stronger. Ever notice that they favor one arm when they twist? Eventually, he has the strength to do it ... and from then on in, it's a piece of cake.

This isn't much different than PV. Once you understand the advantage (according to physics) of a one-armed swing on the pole (compared to the typical two-armed swing ... or compared to your swing, where you actually have MORE weight on the bottom arm than the top one) ... then you'll be motivated to solve the problem. Once you conscientously start putting less and less weight on the bottom arm ... in actual vaults and in drills ... then you'll solve this problem. Oh yes ... you also need a strong top hand grip ... and the self-confidence that it won't slip.

I know you were looking for more of a prescriptive way to fix this, but I gave you the philosophical ... mental visualization of success ... answer instead. Purposely.

Kirk

[AVC Coach]

I've had some vaulters with this same problem. My guys seem to correct it more quickly than my girls. I have some girls that I'm working on this same thing with right now.

Since you're a right handed vaulter, focus on the bottom hand moving up and toward the top of the left standards. This will create the separation you need through the swing allowing your body weight to be supported by your top hand. This also keeps pressure on the pole, which makes it move to or past vertical and keeps it bending from tip to tip allowing you to catch the energy from the entire pole instead of just part of it.

Obviously, start from a short run on a small enough pole for you to be comfortable with. You really do hit a good position off of the ground, setting yourself up for a fast and powerful swing. Learn to swing around the top hand and you'll be surprised how quickly you'll move up poles and grip.

Hope this helps. Good luck!