Tim McMichael is Awesome

[joebro391]

So i saw this jump a long time ago, and saw it again, recently. I must say, I absolutely love the take-off. I can't say that i agree with the tuck, but everything, up until the tuck is absolutely amazing. Now perhaps this is just an excuse for me to post something on the forum, but please let me know what you think about this jump and why the take-off is so amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awxf8EQ3cmM

Does anyone think that his grip may be abnormally weird?? Perhaps he has ridiculous shoulder flexibility?? let me know your thoughts. -6P

[kev44000]

Hard to fault anything, when a five foot sevenish 140lbish guy jumps 18.08. One of the best at his size back in the day. I like the tuck, he taught it to my son. Compare to this jump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeDI93A477g

[joebro391]

Hard to fault anything, when a five foot sevenish 140lbish guy jumps 18.08. One of the best at his size back in the day. I like the tuck, he taught it to my son. Compare to this jump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeDI93A477g

The tuck doesn't add quite as much energy to the system, since the pendulum is shorter. I like Dial's vault too, swing is LONG, but there looks to be a few passives phases (flat back). Still, like you said, excellent for their size, and excellent technicians for ANY size. I love them -6P

[xjoeyx]

So i saw this jump a long time ago, and saw it again, recently. I must say, I absolutely love the take-off. I can't say that i agree with the tuck, but everything, up until the tuck is absolutely amazing. Now perhaps this is just an excuse for me to post something on the forum, but please let me know what you think about this jump and why the take-off is so amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awxf8EQ3cmM

Does anyone think that his grip may be abnormally weird?? Perhaps he has ridiculous shoulder flexibility?? let me know your thoughts. -6P

if i could i would freeze that video and print it out right at the take-off so i have something to look at and a model for. my takeoffs are in need of work haha

[altius]

"I like the tuck". Sad - because that tuck - along with couple of other old ideas like an overly wide grip - may well prevent Jack from jumping the 6.10m he is potentially capable of. I am not criticising Tim because he went with what he knew at the time. I THINK he knows better now - but let us see what his new coach believes. i will watch with interest because Jack has the potential to be great - IF he gets the right technical model sorted out. And incidentally that will not occur if he takes advice from every elite vaulter he meets - as you implied in an earlier post - that way will only lead to confusion. Jumping the way he does he will almost certainly clear 6.00 within four years -- BUT!!

[kev44000]

"I like the tuck". Sad - because that tuck - along with couple of other old ideas like an overly wide grip - may well prevent Jack from jumping the 6.10m he is potentially capable of. I am not criticising Tim because he went with what he knew at the time. I THINK he knows better now - but let us see what his new coach believes. i will watch with interest because Jack has the potential to be great - IF he gets the right technical model sorted out. And incidentally that will not occur if he takes advice from every elite vaulter he meets - as you implied in an earlier post - that way will only lead to confusion. Jumping the way he does he will almost certainly clear 6.00 within four years -- BUT!!

Altius thanks for the confidence in Jack. He is now in the hands of Joe Dial we will see what happens. The first thing coach Dial did was move his grip in alot. He is also trying to get him to not tuck as much and have one fliud motion and get rid of the hesitation he sometimes has. It may not be petrov, but he is making changes that Tim did not do. I am a parent that knows little about vaulting. He is friends with the elite vaulters, and yes they would give advice like everyone else, but he only does what his coach tells him. He is at 5% body fat at 190lbs now. Very strong. He will be on 5.20 poles by the end of summer. We will see. Thanks

[altius]

I suspect that Tim was between a rock and a hard place when he first started working with Jack. He was in process of making a paradigm shift in his thinking about technique but did not want to experiment with his changing ideas on someone with Jack's talent -a difficult decision for anyone and in the end he made the right choice by going with what he knew best. Just wish the other lad I saw in Oklahoma City - Tanner ---? would work seriously with Tim because it would be very interesting to see what would happen. A strange situation, a great coach who rarely seems to get the chance with athletes of potential - despite showing what he can do. All the kids in that area should be flooding in to work with him!!

[kev44000]

Alan Tim is a very good coach. The problem with alot of kids is the parents. They do not want to pay the coach's fee or the gas to get there. I know myself that if had not forked out the money, time and effort Jack would not be where he is today. It starts here with the parents especially with a sport as expensive as the vault. Most Kids here with talent do not take it to the next level and the kids with the drive and want to do not have the support of the parent for the proper resources they need to be successfull. I am talking from experience in Oklahoma. That is why most every kid in the US can say they play football, baseball, soccer etc but few can say I pole vault. A lot kids in Oklahoma try vaulting but after a few months the parent sees very little progress and they decide not to let them continue because of the cost factor. They do not understand it takes years to get good.

[baggettpv]

The cost of the sport is nowhere near it is for Gymnastics, Soccer, Volleyball or Basketball for those seeking the elite level.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

[kev44000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPHdlD8G ... rofilepage

[Soar Like an Eagle]

"I like the tuck". Sad - because that tuck - along with couple of other old ideas like an overly wide grip - may well prevent Jack from jumping the 6.10m he is potentially capable of. I am not criticising Tim because he went with what he knew at the time. I THINK he knows better now - but let us see what his new coach believes. i will watch with interest because Jack has the potential to be great - IF he gets the right technical model sorted out. And incidentally that will not occur if he takes advice from every elite vaulter he meets - as you implied in an earlier post - that way will only lead to confusion. Jumping the way he does he will almost certainly clear 6.00 within four years -- BUT!!

Food for thought, how high would Bubka of jumped if he jumped like Dial, McMichael, and Vigneron? We will never know, maybe 6.50, maybe not. They were little guys jumping very high 1980-1989 20 years ago. Joe jumped 18’1” in 1981 in high school when the world record was 19’0”. He was 5’8” 130 lbs who never lifted a weight in his life until college. Jack is doing quite well working with Tim and Joe. I expect big things from him this year whatever technique he is using. The Petrov technique could be the way to go, but remember the Fosbury Flop, it also important to keep an open mind.

[vault3rb0y]

Biomechanics is just a theory. You cannot prove how many tiny things that would need to be proven to compare the petrov model to a dial-style vault model. However there are concrete differences that can be pointed out and seen to give petrovian model vaulters an edge over the tuck and shoot- even if it includes a longer swing. If Bubka sacrificed the importance of his take off by lowering his take off angle and being slightly under to achieve the stretch of a drive-style vaulter, i dont think he really would have gotten on much bigger poles or timed up any 6.50m vaults. It just doesn't fit with me from a biomechanics view. However, if you have much more gymnastic ability than "track" ability, maybe you would be more comfortable with a little "drive flair" style vault. But the essence shouldn't change from ANY model- and that is that a free and perfect take off at the highest angle possible is the most important aspect of moving a pole to vertical. So while it is true that we dont KNOW whether bubka would have jumped 6.50m the way joe or tim jumped because we dont know ALL the biomechanical changes that it would create, using some known principles, it would seem unlikely. Even tim has commented on how beautifully the petrov model blends each stage of the vault in a way that is much easier to teach than a tuck-and-shoot style.