Rope Vaulting - Yay or Nay?

[vaultwest]

I have rope vaulted and coached rope vaulting for many years. I was taught rope vaulting by Jan Johnson back in 1984 and have used it as an important part of my training regiment often as, when I coached at U of O. At the present time I do not have the proper facilities out at LCC to platform rope vault but I am working on it. I feel that done properly rope vaulting is a very useful drill. No drill can totally mimic ever aspect of an actual vault but learning how to swing and then catch that momentum and perform a dynamic extension turn is very possible and beneficial for vaulters of all skill levels by rope vaulting. I feel certain that my vaulter's vaulting and my own vaulting benefited greatly by rope vaulting. With the proper setup and instruction rope vaulting is very save and I never felt that there was any chance for a catastrophic injury. I feel very bad that the young man in San Diego was killed but it seems obvious to me that they did not have their rope vault set up properly. Anytime we are up in the air we need a pit system that is safe.
Vault On

[powerplant42]

and beneficial for vaulters of all skill levels

That's where I have a problem... It's a big time-waster for anyone without a REAL push-off. There are better ways to learn the extension, and the push-off and turn bit doesn't really benefit anyone that doesn't jump close to a meter over their grip. (CLEARLY not all skill levels...)

Spend 10,000 hours on a bar... THEN go play around with a rope.

[vaultwest]

Well, I guess you are a great coach and I am just a guy that has my vaulters waste their time. Your attitude always just slays me. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and while rope vaulting might not be for everyone because of facilities or philosophies, I think I am with a lot of programs around the globe that have used rope vaulting to help their vaulters attain good results. If it doesn't fit in for someone that's cool too. But I do think that rope vaulting can help.

Swinging on a high bar is very, very important and lots of time should be dedicated to it, but a high bar doesn't move while you are swinging on it so learning to swing on an object that is also moving, as the pole does in the vault, is another piece to the puzzle that is the vault.

Getting a great stretch reflex into the swing is pretty important and a properly executed rope swing really teaches that.

Timing up the swing to the extension-turn phase is also pretty important and while one needs to do that on straight an bent poles having a way to work on it after one has fatigued the legs is a great plus to training.

I don't think one can ever get too much clearance over a bar work and most practices one doesn't get that many clearance opportunities, one good session of rope vaulting can give you more than a whole month of vaulting clearances. Lots of vaults are missed because of mistakes made as the vaulter is trying to negotiate the bar .

Rope vaulting also helps with spacial awareness while upside down which most vaulters have a problem with so the more time upside down the better.

Oh yeah and maybe the biggest thing rope vaulting off of a platform is the second most fun thing ever just behind vaulting. Personally I will throw my hat in with Jan any day, done safely platform rope vaulting is a great drill for the vault. just my humble 2 cents
Vault On

[altius]

I repeat, there are far more important elements of training to focus on than rope vaulting of the kind described here. I never used it in my program, nor to the best of my knowledge do Petrov, Parnov or Mark Stewart use it in theirs.

Sorry dan I am sure kids love it - we all like to pretend we are Tarzan - but in the end coaching is about choices. How do we make best use of the time we have. The evidence is clear - at least to me - the biggest weakness in US vaulting is in the run and take off - without sorting that out no amount of rope vaulting will improve what you do in the final phases of the vault.

Let us see the evidence, put up film of vaulters who do include a large amount of rope vaulting in their program and let us see how much better they are at the top end than those who do not use it at all.

[VTechVaulter]

i rope vault just about every chance i get.... which isn't quite as much these days as we dont currently have a rope vault set up here at VT, but everytime i would go home to where my uncle coaches... they have a set up in the corner.

At skyjumpers camp i have coaches hundreds of kids to rope vault... and have first hand seen some of them take that feeling to the runway. Also it should be noted, that in my 5 years of coaching with Jan, and my 4 years as a camper under him... we never had a single injury rope vaulting...

.. in fact for all the people out there saying this is a dangerous activity... pole vaulting itself is FAR more dangerous than rope vaulting. this is again assuming you have proper equipment and supervision for both.

with all that being said.. and while i do believe in the drill... i also agree with ALTIUS when he says that the bigger gains can be made from improvements to the run and take off! but that doesn't mean rope vaulting doesn't have its time or place

[Mitch]

I usually stay out of discussions on here but Altius you always seem to attack US vaulters when primarily this board is a US vaulters board and I don't think most people like the way you usually go about doing so. Also Chelsea Johnson does include rope vaulting into her training and obviously she is doing something right to get 2nd at Worlds. Usually when I was working out with her last fall it would normally be used as a warm up and something you do after your vault session. I like it as a warm up because it stretches all your muscles out and gets you feeling what it's like to be on a pole again without getting your legs more tired by doing more warm up jumps. I'm not saying that every elite should be doing this because yes maybe there are some other things people can work on in the meantime but when it comes down to it everyone like to have fun sometimes. Because, what's the point of vaulting if you are not having fun? With that said I usually do a ton of rope vaulting in the summer when there is a lot of down time along with a ton of short run stuff. I think that period is when the rope should be utilized the most along with some in the fall when your legs are beat up from running workouts. During the season though, I usually never touch a rope.

[rainbowgirl28]

.. in fact for all the people out there saying this is a dangerous activity... pole vaulting itself is FAR more dangerous than rope vaulting. this is again assuming you have proper equipment and supervision for both.

Well I don't know that there is any evidence one way or the other. It's tougher to have safe facilities for rope vaulting, you need a lot more padding and the risk of shooting off the back of the pit is probably higher.

But I will say that rope vaulting has almost no risk of going sideways, and there aren't all of the variables of wind and runup and leg tiredness and pole selection, so once the vaulter learns how to do it properly, it probably is safer.

[baggettpv]

I am staying out of this because I was never any good at it.... but I did jump 32" over my grip.... haha in the day. But I do have alot of respect for altius.

Rick Baggett
WSTC

[Run2Niels]

Altius wrote:
the biggest weakness in US vaulting is in the run and take off

I think it would be fair to say that the biggest weakness in the whole damn world vaulting is in the run and take off. Don't you think so too Alan? Not only the US vaulters are lacking runup and take off (jumping!) skills...

Mitch, I don't think Alan is worried about the national feelings of US vaulters. It looks to me he's worried about the safety of polevault training. Aren't you too?

So everybody can fairly say polevault training can be a dangerous activity. If you can reduce the risks by finding good alternatives for potentially dangerous activities like rope vaulting, why not use those instead?
If Petrov, Parnov, Stewart and other great coaches could train their athletes to a very high level without ropevaulting it make me wonder if anybody would need such an exercise. The highbar seems to offer enough possibilities for training the air work without the need for running and jumping those tired legs...

[altius]

"Altius you always seem to attack US vaulters when primarily this board is a US vaulters board ---- and I don't think most people like the way you usually go about doing so."

Are you suggesting that 'furriners' should not be allowed to contribute to PVP or to comment on matters pertaining to US vaulting? Better scrub all of agapit's contributions up until a month ago then! And what about that notion of free speech I have heard about.

But I would like some evidence of both claims you have made, as I would like visual evidence that rope vaulting does what you claim it does. I suspect that Chelsea's performance can be put down to a bit more than the fact that she included rope vaulting in her program.

I also suspect that many more folk will confirm that my contribution to US vaulting over the last few years has been a positive one. If that were not the case I would not continually be invited to return to contribute to many clinics in YOUR country -14 this past summer, nor would I get the positive endorsements for the BTB series that I am receiving from some pretty serious coaches in YOUR country.

Incidentally have you ever seen that commercial - for Rexona I believe - which is based around the notion that only your best friends will tell you that you have a problem?

[KYLE ELLIS]

I have some film of Petrov working with his vaulters doing rope exercises, but I don't think they are the same as whats being talked about here. They were practicing hitting an open position and then swinging their entire body up.

[dj]

Hey

did i here that the San Diego tragedy was rope vaulting or swinging into a high jump pit? or part there off!!! set up on concrete!!!!

The evidence is clear - at least to me - the biggest weakness in US vaulting is in the run and take off...

dj