Rope Vaulting - Yay or Nay?

[1yeldud1]

A very sad situation - My heart goes out to the family. As a volunteer coach at our local high school I am always inspecting the areas around the pole vault (ours and the schools that we are visiting). At our sectional meet this year I had our coach summon the "guy with the gun" to show him the exposed concrete around the pole vault pit. It was sad enough that the concrete was exposed at such an important meet - but WHY did the local kids have to endure the danger of concrete EVERYDAY !!!!! Pads are CHEAP - lawyers are expensive !!!! At my sons college vaulting of any kind is forbidden unless a college VAULT coach is present - period - no exceptions. I push the same rule at our local high school - no vault coach, no vaulting of any kind. I've gone so far as to tell kids ot "go home" if they get to the point that they are goofing around near the pole vault area. We rope vault at our practice facility - we have a 8 foot rope hung from the rafters of our barn. We stand on a home made table about 5 foot of the ground. We rope swing over a bunge and land on the pole vault mats. I have a set of old high jump mats and several sets of gym padding to cover any exposed hard surfaces. The first thing we teach our kids if they abort the rope vault in mid swing - just hold on as the rope will pendlium back toward the scaffolding - just hold on and drop on the mats on the return swing (the area between the mats and scaffolding is padded with a section of high jump mats, just in case) The vaulter NEVER is any more than 6 feet from the bunge - it teaches the beginning vaulter to swing and rotate. The kids love this drill. We always have TWO adults present and on full alert for any issues that could arrise. My two sents worth (PS - we completely wore out a Jan Johnson tape learning the drills he recommends - A very good series of pole vault drills)

[golfdane]

IMHO, none of the video's shows proper form. Sure, it's fun, and can increase spatial awareness, but otherwise, it adds nothing more to pole vaulting.

Jumping to a hanging rope is valuable, but swinging from a platform to a mat like this, does not teach your body how to react to pole vaulting. The timing is all wrong, and it's almost impossible to achieve the right body positions.

Just my humble opinion. Agree on all the security issues listed already (if you decide to have fun with this drill).

[KirkB]

Nay ---unless well supervised and plenty of padding all around. Without strick supervision kids (high school and college) tend to goof off with the rope and do stupid things and end up getting hurt . Also at some vault camps I have seen kids use the rope as a play toy and get hurt. The rope is off limits to my son period.

I agree with you, Kev ... except I think making the rope "off limits" to Jack is a bit extreme. At some point in his career, he has to become responsible for his own safety.

In my day, I would have tried rope vaulting in a heart beat if given the equipment and the opportunity. We just never had a rope, bungee, and pit all in the same place at the same time.

But now that I'm older (and presumably more mature), I really look on this as just a fun excercise, rather than something truly beneficial to vaulting TECHNIQUE. If time and energy are factors (they usually are), then the highbar and rings are better for improving technique.

Instead of rope vaulting as shown in Becca's vids, I suggest this rope drill ... that's SAFER and MORE BENEFICIAL to vaulting TECHNIQUE ... and IMHO probably just as much of a "rush" ...

From a running start, grab the rope, swing upside down, and hang upside down on it. The initial swing should simulate a real vault, but that's not the "fun" part yet. As the rope reaches it's highest point, extend your legs straight up ... simulating the extension part of a real vault. Now ... keep hanging on the rope (upside down) as you swing backwards ... now extend again, in unison with the rope reaching its peak. Go back and forth this way ... like pumping on a swing ... except upside down. Keep going higher and higher until you get close to the ceiling, get tired, or you've had enough.

Benefits are ... getting used to being upside down (spacial awareness) ... getting used to the timing of extending your back and legs in time with the uncoiling of the pole ... muscular development (backs, lats, biceps ... for the extension part of your vault) ... AND (and I really think this is IMPORTANT to the psyche of most vaulters) ... for the thrill-seeking fun of it.

Notice that you NEVER let go of the rope!!! This is why this drill is safe. Self-preservation will NOT allow you to loosen your grip when you're up that high, so it's VERY SAFE ... even tho it looks and feels dangerous. To be honest, we did this in the gym when Coach Shannon (or the gymnastics coach) weren't there. We didn't want to be told that we weren't allowed to do it. But trust me ... it was completely SAFE ... it just LOOKED dangerous.

Kirk

[Tim McMichael]

The problem with rope vaulting is the extreme danger of flying over the pit. If you let go too soon, you can travel much farther horizontally than you are attempting to clear vertically. Someone trying to rope vault 18' might need 30' of mat behind the bar to be safe. Rope vaulting safely requires at least two full pits.

That said, it is one of the only ways to drill the top third of the vault. Done properly, it can mimic the top of the jump almost exactly. Unless you are already a very accomplished vaulter, however, the drill has little value. Knowing what it feels like to push off four feet is practically useless if you have never in your life been in any kind of position to do that with your actual jump. I wouldn't recommend it until every other aspect of the jump is grooved. There is only a tiny fraction of vaulters who should be doing this.

[altius]

"There is only a tiny fraction of vaulters who should be doing this."

Absolutely agree. Especially when it is clear that the vast majority of US vaulters do not do enough work improving their run up and take off through simple drills.

[ACvault]

I wonder if we can get Jan to weigh in on this, considering that he implements rope vaulting into the training of his Skyjumpers participants and athletes.

I think rope vaulting from a platform as shown in the videos is a useful tool. As a regular participant in this drill while attending Skyjumpers I found that the top of my vault began to look normal as compared to what I would do my first two years of jumping (which was simply arch over the bar backwards because I did not know how to turn). At the time I thought it was the best thing I could be doing to improve my own jumping. Having gained more knowledge now, I agree with Tim that the elements on the ground must be the focus until such a time when the athlete's progression will be determined by the top end of the vault.

The rope is a valuable tool however. If complete safety can not be guaranteed for the purpose of rope vaulting from a platform, then stationary rope drills are obviously the right choice and are just as helpful in developing the swing, extension and event-specific strength of an athlete.

[rainbowgirl28]

I think Jan is pretty busy with Chelsea in Europe She's competing in the World Athletics Final pretty soon!

[Mitch]

I would have to say I am definitely in favor of rope vaulting but I have learned pole vaulting under the "Johnson" theory so I am biased in that sense. But after rupturing my Achilles last winter I spent more time on the rope vault then I have ever before and let me tell you it was very good at replicating what it would be like on the top end of the pole. I downloaded 2 videos to youtube just so that you can see what I am talking about. It is amazing how many kids do the same bad habits on the rope that they do on the pole and also the same things kids need a lot of work on, (such as the swing) is easily seen through the rope vault. I am for the rope vault only if there is a good mat setup and obviously Vault Chicago has a pretty good one. Golfdane had stated that it is almost impossible to get to the right positions so that is why I put these videos here because I wanted to show everyone that is it possible to come close to hitting the right positions. If you line my rope vault up with my real vault the form looks almost identical. Finally, I always told kids at summer practices is that if they were able to generate "pop" off the top of the rope, they are guaranteed to get tons of push off on the real vault. Same thing goes for straight pole-ing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E_ray0ivLc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KonvIUa6YSg

[VaultPurple]

can you tell us why the 2 leg swing?

[golfdane]

I would have to say I am definitely in favor of rope vaulting but I have learned pole vaulting under the "Johnson" theory so I am biased in that sense. But after rupturing my Achilles last winter I spent more time on the rope vault then I have ever before and let me tell you it was very good at replicating what it would be like on the top end of the pole. I downloaded 2 videos to youtube just so that you can see what I am talking about. It is amazing how many kids do the same bad habits on the rope that they do on the pole and also the same things kids need a lot of work on, (such as the swing) is easily seen through the rope vault. I am for the rope vault only if there is a good mat setup and obviously Vault Chicago has a pretty good one. Golfdane had stated that it is almost impossible to get to the right positions so that is why I put these videos here because I wanted to show everyone that is it possible to come close to hitting the right positions. If you line my rope vault up with my real vault the form looks almost identical. Finally, I always told kids at summer practices is that if they were able to generate "pop" off the top of the rope, they are guaranteed to get tons of push off on the real vault. Same thing goes for straight pole-ing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E_ray0ivLc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KonvIUa6YSg

Nice execution!! I would prefer jumping from shorter run-ups on soft poles, but injury might prevent it. Thx for showing, that it is possible (but still very hard) to achieve a bodyposition, that mimics the vault to some extent (are you doing double leg swings on a real vault? (Edit: Just saw some of your other vids, and you are not a double leg swinger. Looks pretty good )).
The problem is, that many tries to generate the "pop" using a late extension. Rather, I would prefer the "pop" coming the energy stored in the pole, and that you achieve inversion and extension while the pole is still releasing stored energy, and that's just not possible on a rope.

[dj]

good morning

i think we are over working this....

i feel it is a beginner introduction drill... a few steps.. swing and turn..

basicly the same benifit as a low grip, stiff pole "pop-up"..

dj

[Mitch]

2 leg swing because you need both of them to kick backwards to create the long trail leg affect in the rope vault. Look at a gymnastics routine by a top male gymnast and look at his giant right before he dismounts, basically that is what you want to mimic. I have tries the classic one knee up and one leg back but it is much more difficult to get a good "tap" for your swing