Looking for constructive advice

[KirkB]

Good catch, Kyle!

Tasha, you're getting good advice from almost everyone here. But I think Kyle caught something that others didn't.

Instead of repeating the tips already given, I'd like to discuss the TIMING of your vault ... during your swing and extension.

You swing to a pike, then pause, then shoot out of the pike. I doubt that that's your intention. I'll guess that you're really trying to use the Petrov Model. And for your age and PR, you're doing it moderately well. However, the best tip that I can give you is to try to continue your swing right on up and through your extension ... in one continuous motion. That's the "continuous chain", and that's the Petrov way.

You may not recognize that you do this, but you swing to a pike position (instead of a rockbacked tuck position), then you pause, then you shoot out of that, as you flag over the bar.

I'll guess that you're probably a good gymnast, and you can do a kip fairly well on the uneven bars. At least that's what it looks like you're doing ... kipping up and over the bar.

So first of all, it's not all bad. It's not as bad as the tuck/shoot. At least it's a pike/shoot. Brad Walker does some of this, so it ain't all bad. But he doesn't pause nearly as long as you do.

So ask yourself these 2 questions:

1. Why am I pausing?
2. Why am I flagging out over the bar?

Think about it.

The answer lies in what Kyle said.

So what can you do about it? And how will that help?

I could just tell you what I think, but perhaps if you think about it awhile, then it might sink in better.

I'll get back to you as soon as you tell me what you thought about, and how you think you can improve this part of your vault.

Kirk

[KirkB]

I worked on the inversion drills--- here is a video of one. Am I doing it correct?

Tasha, there's several different ways that you can do this drill, and I think it's "OK" the way you're doing them, but ...

1. This is generally a straight-pole drill, and you're bending your pole. You should consider using a heavier pole for this drill.

2. When I watch you do this drill at normal speed, it looks OK, but when I slo-mo it, I notice that there's at least one particular frame where you're actually tucked. Not even piked ... TUCKED. Of course you don't want to do that. Like in your competition vaults, you want to emphasize the CONTINUOUS MOTION action. Swing up right on thru to the inverted position ... WITHOUT TUCKING ... or PIKING! The idea is to get the feel for swinging upside down QUICKLY. It's a particularly good drill for you, becuz if you do it properly, there's no way you can KIP. Once you're inverted in line with the pole, you just freeze in that position as you fall into the pit (as you're doing).

Similar quiz as before: (1) Why do you think you're tucking? (2) How can you fix that in this drill?

If your intent in doing this drill is something different than what I'm pointing out, then that's alright. But in addition to whatever else you were trying to accomplish (what was your intent?), try it the way I'm suggesting, because it will help to fix the flaw that I hinted at in my previous post.

Kirk

[pvhigh1]

Hmm well I am pretty sure that I stop moving my hands once I get into the pike position and that's why I pause/stall. And I look at the bar a lot! But what does Kyle mean about the grip?

[KirkB]

Hmm well I am pretty sure that I stop moving my hands once I get into the pike position and that's why I pause/stall. And I look at the bar a lot! But what does Kyle mean about the grip?

For typical vaulters, our hands "stop moving" near takeoff. Arguably they stop moving once the pole hits the box, or maybe once we pass thru the C position. But either way, let's face it ... our hands are holding onto the pole ... and we're not shifting our grip ... so the way I see it, they're NOT moving "once we get into the pike position".

I think I know what you mean tho ... I think you mean it in a different way ... where you want to "keep the pole moving forward" by keeping your hands moving forward. I'll leave that one alone, cuz it's not the way I personally think of that part of the vault. I'm not saying it's wrong ... I'm just saying that there's more important things to focus on than worrying about what your HANDS are doing as the pole's moving to vertical. Your hands are connected to the pole, so I don't know what you're supposed to do with them during your swing ... other than just use them to just HANG ONTO THE POLE! Just my opinion ... don't sweat it if you don't agree ... this is a minor point.

Enough about that.

Kyle and I aren't even talking about that. We're talking about you actually LOWERING the grip of your top hand on the pole.

What do you think lowering your grip will do? ... particularly regarding the 2 issues that I've pointed out (and some others have already identified earlier in this thread) ... such as the PAUSE you have between your swing and your shoot/flag-out over the bar?

Your current grip gives you the results that we see in your vids. What will happen if you lower your grip?

1. Will you PAUSE as much? How so?
2. Will you FLAG OUT as much? How so?

I'm sorry to not just blurt out the answer, because I truly want you to think about this first. You need to understand and be motivated to change your "technique" or "style" for the better. Me just blurting out the solution doesn't actually SOLVE the problem. The problem is only solved once you RECOGNIZE what the problem is, and once you DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Be sure to consult with your personal coach about what's being discussed in this thread of yours ... and get his/her opinion and advice about it.

Kirk

[pvhigh1]

What do you think lowering your grip will do? ... particularly regarding the 2 issues that I've pointed out (and some others have already identified earlier in this thread) ... such as the PAUSE you have between your swing and your shoot/flag-out over the bar?

Well I think that lowering my grip would just speed up the rotation of the pole causing it to move to vertical sooner. Right? I honestly cant think of how it will effect the flagging off part because when I lower my grip I feel like I don't have enough time to swing all the way up.

[KirkB]

Well I think that lowering my grip would just speed up the rotation of the pole causing it to move to vertical sooner. Right?

OK, I'll try to explain what I see in your vault now ...

First you're absolutely correct in predicting that lowering your grip would speed up the rotation of the pole to vertical. That's a GOOD thing. The way you say it "would JUST speed up the rotation" suggests to me that you don't see the advantage of faster pole speed. Believe me ... it's a HUGE advantage.

The idea is that with faster pole speed, you must do EVERYTHING faster ... without pausing! If you don't, you'll hit the bar on the way up. You must swing faster, and during your upswing, you won't have any time ... or need ... to rock back into that pike of yours. You'll go more straight up the pole (shoot straight upwards) without a pike and without a flag-out. This is the "continuous motion" that every good vaulter has ... or needs to have. This is the advantage of lowering your grip.

Once you improve your pole speed this way, and get everything moving UP ... without a pike or flagout ... THEN you can start increasing your grip again ... being careful not to regress back into your old habits.

I honestly cant think of how it will effect the flagging off part because when I lower my grip I feel like I don't have enough time to swing all the way up.

The second thing I'd like to explain to you is the disadvantage of flagging out. You flag out because your body feels that it's losing its upwards momentum (that darn GRAVITY!), so in order to get over the bar, you reach for it with your legs. After all, what else can your body do? Not much. You've lost your upwards momentum, so there's nothing to propel you any higher before you go over the bar. That's why you flag out.

So how do you fix this?

You lower your grip!

You say you don't have enough time to swing up if you lower your grip. Well, you do have ENOUGH time ... you just don't have AS MUCH time! That's a GOOD thing! YOU MUST DO EVERYTHING FASTER! There's no time to PAUSE!

I know this sounds counter-intuitive, but having faster pole speed will cause you to need to swing faster to get upside down before the pole recoils. And once you get upside down, if you don't "act fast", you're going to hit the bar on your way up. So to prevent hitting the bar on the way up, you need to get back even more (more upside down and less flagging out). Now you can start extending your legs more UPWARDS and less TOWARDS the bar.

So the last part of this is how you get over the bar if you're shooting straight UP. How?

The answer is that you let the horizontal momentum of your POLE SPEED carry you over the bar. All YOU have to do is shoot straight upwards. No pike. No flagging out. Then ... as long as you have good pole speed ... the extra forwards momentum that you gained by lowering your grip will carry you horizontally over the bar. All YOU need to worry about is getting HIGH ENOUGH to clear the bar. And you will.

Remember my earlier statement ...

I'd like to discuss the TIMING of your vault ... during your swing and extension.

What I'm suggesting is all about TIMING ... speeding up your swing and extension!

I hope you understand what I'm trying to describe. Please discuss this idea with your coach.

Kirk

[pvhigh1]

Wow that makes perfect sense actually. Thank you! --I've had a lot of issues with the timing of my vault because it always seems like Im rushed in the top end part. So do you think I should lower my grip in drills and in full vaults? In meets, I usually hold around 12' 5" on a 13'0" pole.

[KirkB]

Wow that makes perfect sense actually. Thank you! --I've had a lot of issues with the timing of my vault because it always seems like Im rushed in the top end part. So do you think I should lower my grip in drills and in full vaults? In meets, I usually hold around 12' 5" on a 13'0" pole.

I would talk to your personal coach about this, and figure out with him/her what to do. You don't want to make any drastic changes this late in the season. Only you and he can decide what's best to do ... and when.

Yes ... experiment with my suggestion in short run practices ... but don't lose your focus on any important meets coming up soon!

Kirk

[pvhigh1]

Thanks for all your help! I think I've improved from all those swing drills! Here is a video of my 12'4" attempt at regionals. I was so close!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7V40LJ8MUI

[KirkB]

Very nice! I think your swing is becoming much smoother now ... and your pause in your "pike" is becoming less noticeable!

That's the "continuous motion theory" in action!

I notice that you start your pole up nice and high, but by your last few strides, it's dropped to horiz to the runway (too early), and you're struggling to hold that position.

Your run would feel more effortless if you dropped the pole a little later ... and perhaps a little slower. Your objective should be to try to eliminate as much of the leveraged weight of the pole as possible in your last few strides.

Kirk

[pvhigh1]

I notice that you start your pole up nice and high, but by your last few strides, it's dropped to horiz to the runway (too early), and you're struggling to hold that position.

Your run would feel more effortless if you dropped the pole a little later ... and perhaps a little slower. Your objective should be to try to eliminate as much of the leveraged weight of the pole as possible in your last few strides.

Kirk

I've heard that from a few coaches now. I've just been really focused on the swing. But it's time to go back and fix it! Should I start dropping the tip when I'm around my third left? Thanks!

[KirkB]

I hesitate to give you EXACT advice re when to drop the pole ... other than to say it should be dropped later, more slowly, and continuously so that it feels almost weightless when you plant.

Your personal coach should be able to give you more precise advice re this.

Kirk