Turning Over/Speed

[itsmemissjeni]

Turning Over

I've been vaulting for less than a year, but someone told me that the advice given in the beginners forum isn't good.

I'm having trouble figuring out how to turn over. Whenever I vault, I can only perform the swing to seated. (having my butt hit the bar for heights i haven't cleared yet >.<)

Any Advice? :[

Speed

I'm a distance runner and a terrible sprinter. Is there some type of workout/form/techniques that will help me improve on sprinting?

[powerplant42]

The advice is not bad in the 'beginners' forum... Whoever told you that is either reading the wrong posts, or doesn't have a very good understanding of the basic Petrov model as it relates to being taught to beginners. This is obviously a 'beginner' issue, and the same people that post in that forum will be posting in this one. You didn't escape us!

You just have to turn over. That's literally it... There's no magic. You don't even have to try hard!

If you're having trouble, get away from the pads and go try it in the sand (with a stiff pole obviously)... Run 1-2 steps, take-off, stay behind the pole, SWING with a straight trail-leg and high drive-knee and turn over. Try to get some film...

The best way to learn how to sprint is to sprint. Distance running will hurt your vaulting approach... They are opposing events.

[vault3rb0y]

Try to combine the high knees drill with the butt kicking drill. Start with that, then with the same action just push harder with each step. You will find you go fastest when you don't overstride.

For that matter, any speed development drills will help!

High Knees
Butt Kickers
A-skips
B-skips
Bounders
Etc....

Hurdle mobility for hip flexor strength/flexibility which you will find becomes necessary to keep your knees up at a higher speed. Look up any of these terms either on PVP or google and you should find explainations to how they should be done. Then after you can do them without thinking much about them (a couple weeks), do it with a pole.

[bel142]

I would say this is not a beginner issue, this could be anywhere from beginner to elite issue. Fact of the matter is the run sets up the majority of the energy used for the rest of the vault. You can not add energy into the vault once you have left the ground. (now for all those who are growling at your computer screens... let me explain) One you leave the ground, all that is left is physics,

energy in = energy out - the petrov model helps transfer energy to pole then back to the vaulter in a very efficient way and making the transfer much easier,

But point and case the faster you run the more energy and inertia that is available to be used, the punch line --> the more energy given to the pole, the more is available to be gotten out.

I agree with the above, work on your sprinting form, those drills are the tops. Ground reaction force is directly proportional to runway speed, so increasing your leg strength is always a good thing too. Just because you have a pole in your hand doesn't mean you run any different. Even if you are a distance runner, good tall posture, high knees, tucked pelvis, and using "joe booty" to pull your foot under you all will help increase runway speed, turn over, and eventually hit high bars.

Its not going to happen over night, but if you start adding proper sprint technique into your daily warm up and training, start practicing good habits it will show in your run.

[KirkB]

Bel, I do agree with all of your points re the importance of the run, but I am "growling at my screen".

To explain why would get off the topic of this thread, and what I have to say really belongs on the Advanced Technique forum.

So I'll refrain for now, but I might create a new thread in the AT forum sometime soon.

Kirk

[rbvaulter#1]

yeah sprinting speed is best gained by sprinting.

As for the turn it is very simple as others have said. Just turn. An easy way is to turn your head when you want to turn and usually your body will follow. It is really that simple

Good Luck

[KirkB]

As for the turn it is very simple as others have said. Just turn. An easy way is to turn your head when you want to turn and usually your body will follow.

No, no. That's not right. You keep your feet together and then turn one foot over the other. Lie down on the ground and practice turning.

Try it by turning one foot over the other. Does your body follow?

Then try it by turning your head. Does your body follow?

Do it the way that seems to work best when you practice it on the ground.

But really ... remember that this is mostly just for fun ... the turn will come NATURALLY without much practice needed, as you improve your swinging technique.

Oh BTW ... this is a Beginner's thread. It was put in the Intermediate forum becuz Miss Jeni was looking for better advice than in the Beginner's forum.

Kirk

[bel142]

Turning over like the fly away!!!.... I was thinking "turning over" in terms of running....

Oh dear... Anyhoo, I agree with Kirk, you head sits on a vertebrae dedicated to turing, meanwhile it is still on the axis of your body so if you wanted to argue that the weight distribution changes you would be incorrect.

Crossing your feet is probably the best way to go, your feet attached to you legs then hips have a bigger impact with positional change.

In terms of turning over (running) I disagree with #1, and Powerplant. Saying sprinting speed is best gained by sprinting, is like saying the best way to learn how to pole vault is to pole vault, Its true, but simplified to degree that it becomes incorrect.

A distance runner's knee flexion is nowhere near that of a sprinter in mid stride at the same position, the same is true with pelvic tuck and tilt. Making the transition from distance running to sprinting takes training just like the vault, breaking it down into parts then putting back together is generally the best way to train for it. Vaulterboy above hit it right on the head, thats why there are sprint techniques and drills.

[vault3rb0y]

Turning at the top

This has been covered quite a bit, you might use the search function to find a thread that explains exactly what you are looking for. But, turning should be the last thing on your mind during your vault. Focusing on pulling through and keeping pressure on the pole for as long as possible will not only make you go higher, the turn will come automatically.

[powerplant42]

Focusing on pulling through and keeping pressure on the pole for as long as possible will not only make you go higher, the turn will come automatically.

I would reword that... You're talking about all sorts of pushing and pulling on the pole which might seriously misguide our brand new vaulter!

Instead, try moving the pole to vertical with a strong upspringing action and a nice strong swing of a long left leg!

[KirkB]

... try moving the pole to vertical with a strong upspringing action and a nice strong swing of a long left leg!

To dumb it down, I'd say "strong upspringing takeoff" instead of "strong upspringing action". Or just plain "strong takeoff".

I've never used the word "upspringing". It's kinda redundant, but I suppose it implies the DIRECTION of the takeoff.

And not to be picky, but "a long left leg" doesn't work for us lefties. It's better to say "a long trail leg".

Kirk

[baggettpv]

Developmentally, speed is first a function of biomechanics. After the mechanics are learned then strength and nueromuscular (sp?) speed will play a part and should start to be developed at that time. Thats an issue in the HS programs I have seen. Strength development on poor mechanics? Not a good situation for the kids. But strength development thru the development of good mechanics? I like that!
If we are talking about speed?

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC