How to straight pole to get better?

[KirkB]

Altius, I agree with you and Rick full-heartedly about this.

I'm only on a rant about PP making a blanket, superlative statement with no facts to back it up. To say that flex pole vaulting is no different than stiff pole vaulting is ridiculous.

To say that you need to learn how to stiff pole vault first ... in order to learn "the basics" ... and THEN start modifying your technique to accomodate the bend of the pole is absolutely the correct ... and the ONLY way to progress ... in my personal experience.

And BTW, it was THIRTEEN simularities and 22 differences.

Sooch, it's your thread, so please don't be distracted by my rant, and I'm sorry to have car-jacked it. Heed the advice of Altius and Rick.

Kirk

[sooch90]

No problem Kirk, I don't mind at all!

So it would be beneficial to designate a practice a week to straight pole vaulting? From how many lefts? 3? 4? Also, with the goal during these practices to vault as if you were just vaulting in general? Focusing on taking off out, getting a nice plant, and swinging through?

I have tried Rick's straight pole vaulting test/drill, do you guys think it would be useful to stick to this exercise when straight pole vaulting? Staying at around 3 lefts and stuff?

[baggettpv]

No, you don't practice it once a week! You build it into your warm-ups. Have the kids be aware of this every day! Every base skill is this way! Just decide what the base skills are! Come to Portland on May 29th and see how this goes together.

Rick Baggett

[baggettpv]

So, straight pole from 3 lefts and you have to get into the pit. Can anyone get in over 6'?
The rules are:
You must stay behind the pole
Measurement of 0 is the standing grip
Pole must NOT bend

Go for it dudes. My clubs best is 6'6" Guess who!

Rick Baggett

[baggettpv]

When you find your maximum grip (x3 reps) then lower it 6" and add the swing to the movement. Again as part of the warm-up.
All laid out in my little book.

Rick Baggett

[baggettpv]

Getting it right from the start is the question. What are we doing for our 12 year olds? They will be 16 in 2012 and moving to 2016.

Rick Baagett

[vcpvcoach]

I found the Dave Bulter drills on this site this year and what a difference it's made for my vaulters. Rick is right, incorporate these drills into your warm-ups.

I coach the high jump so I have my vaulters do pole runs, jump overs (see http://www.skyjumpers.com ), sand vaults (see Dave Bulter's speech at Reno) then they come over to the pit. This gives me time to work with my high jumpers and it give them the straight pole drills they need to be successful.

Here's the proof that it works, I had a freshman boy last year that cleared 10'9". He had an OK plant, an OK takeoff, and a not so OK swing. After the season, I had him do the above stuff plus he never saw a bar until the first meet of the indoor season. He went 11'6" that day. Now a month and a half latter, he is over 14' in practice everyday that a bar is up. Sadly, the weather has been bad at every meet we have been to outdoors. Most have been canceled. Saturday's meet went from 73 degrees to 43 degrees in about two seconds with a wind shift from the SW to the East. They canceled the meet at 10' because of the temp. and the fact it was pouring rain. Welcome to Illinois.

I would "dance with who brung you" for now. Meaning, do what you are doing currently maybe add these drills to your warmups, then over the summer work the straight poling all summer. I promise that you will improve if you put in the work.

Lastly, I see so many good vaulter fixate on clearing bars and bending the heck out of the pole. Send more time on the ground work (see Rick's DVD) and you will see higher bars with less effort.

The boy I mention above is clearing 14' on a 13' 165 holding at 13' running from 6 lefts.

[powerplant42]

I'm only on a rant about PP making a blanket, superlative statement with no facts to back it up. To say that flex pole vaulting is no different than stiff pole vaulting is ridiculous.

I will repeat myself again. They are different. However, they should not be treated as different if you are to use stiff poling as a means to train your flexible pole vaulting.

We could go on and on about the different mechanics and feelings between stiff poling and flexible pole vaulting, but why do it here in the 'Training' forum? Here in this thread I thought we were trying to help Split figure out how to use stiff poling as a means to an end, not as a science experiment.

My so called 'blanket statement' works, because it is directed at what the athlete should be trying to do, not what science is behind it.

[KirkB]

Now, my question is, how exactly should I straight pole vault? ...

PP, this is the question ...

I thought we were trying to help Split figure out how to use stiff poling ...

... and Sooch is the one asking.

And for you to tell him to ...

Don't vault any differently on the stiff pole than the flexible pole... Treat them as one in the same.

... is rather useless advice. If you're going to advise Sooch how to "straight pole vault", then put some meat into your advice ... and back it up with some quotes from BTB2 ... or explain WHY he should do it a certain way ... based on your EXPERIENCE.

Please, let's stop bickering and start providing some USEFUL advice ... as Altius and Rick have. Sooch wants to know what he should focus on in his summer training ... particularly regarding stiff poling.

PP, you need to understand that you don't have the credibility of an Alan Launder or a Rick Baggett. You can't just post one-liners and expect people to follow your advice. Alan and Rick can do this, because they're BELIEVABLE, and they have the credentials to back up what they're saying.

The best you can do is parrot something you read in BTB2.

If someone were to ask Sooch this summer why he was stiff poling a certain way, he could say with high confidence that "Alan Launder and Rick Baggett advised me to do it this way", and the response would be "Ahh! Those are very experienced coaches, so they must have given you some good advice!"

Unfortunately for you, PP, if he said "Powerplant advised me to do it this way", the response would be "Who's he?".

Kirk

[powerplant42]

Most vaulters I talk to have never heard of BTB2, let alone its author... I get the same thing when I say that I got an idea from altius to people... "Who's he?"

If someone doesn't like my advice, then they don't have to take it. I've done probably ~90% stiff poling in the past 12 months... I believe that makes me qualified to give very simple advice on the topic. Frankly, I think discussing the biomechanical differences between flexible pole vaulting and stiff poling is a waste of time on this thread because it is not PRACTICAL advice. (It is not, however, as big a waste of time as arguing about it, so I'm done.)

But I'm curious on how you vaulted differently doing your stiff pole warm ups? Did you try to do anything differently than from your regular vaults?

[sooch90]

Most vaulters I talk to have never heard of BTB2, let alone its author... I get the same thing when I say that I got an idea from altius to people... "Who's he?"

If someone doesn't like my advice, then they don't have to take it. I've done probably ~90% stiff poling in the past 12 months... I believe that makes me qualified to give very simple advice on the topic. Frankly, I think discussing the biomechanical differences between flexible pole vaulting and stiff poling is a waste of time on this thread because it is not PRACTICAL advice. (It is not, however, as big a waste of time as arguing about it, so I'm done.)

But I'm curious on how you vaulted differently doing your stiff pole warm ups? Did you try to do anything differently than from your regular vaults?

The last questions are directed towards me right?

When I stiff pole vault, I tend to be a lot less aggressive on my run and I don't really try driving the pole at all. My plant becomes weaker, which I think it naturally should since I'm not trying to really hit the pole with my arms as much at the plant. However, my takeoff angle changes, and I'm not exactly sure if this is a bad thing. I tend to really just jump up at the plant, which may sound great in writing, but when I try to translate it over to my 4L run with a flexible pole, my vaults end up looking worse.

Now I haven't been doing straight pole vaults much this season, but I plan to over the summer. I'll experiment a big and see how different things work.



Thank you for all the replies everyone!

Rick, what "little book" are you referring too? Is it for sale?

[powerplant42]

They were for KB, but I guess it's better that you answered.

Seriously, do everything you would do with the flexible pole with the stiff pole... But if you are struggling with the stiff pole, then try reversing that thinking... Once you learn to do it on the stiff pole, do everything you do with the flexible pole as you would with a stiff pole!

Do you see what I'm trying to get at?