A Flexible High Bar

[vault3rb0y]

The more i do swinging bubkas on high bar or rings, the more i feel a huge pressure on my hands and shoulders. This is due to the force of my swing, especially when my trail leg finishes the downswing. I can't help but imagine a high bar made of fiberglass or some flexible material, or rings made of some slightly flexible material so that you can feel and SEE the energy of your swing. It would bend maybe 6-12" more than you just hanging on it, depending on what pole you use, and how well you can swing. Has anyone ever experimented with this idea, or energy-absorption-and-release simulators for other drills? It would encourage a continuous swing to the top, and might be fun too! I am just throwing the idea out there to see what you think, see if it has been done before, and to see whether you think it would be useful! Thanks.

J

[KirkB]

The more i do swinging bubkas on high bar or rings, the more i feel a huge pressure on my hands and shoulders. This is due to the force of my swing, especially when my trail leg finishes the downswing. I can't help but imagine a high bar made of fiberglass or some flexible material, or rings made of some slightly flexible material so that you can feel and SEE the energy of your swing. It would bend maybe 6-12" more than you just hanging on it, depending on what pole you use, and how well you can swing.

Jason, I've often thought of doing that, but I've never actually done it. On a regulation gymnastic highbar, I did get a few inches of flex ... I'm not sure how much ... but it felt great ... it felt like I was really acomplishing something ... you know ... a positive feedback sorta thing! The faster I swung, the more WHIP I got, and the more the bar bent!

My thoughts were that it would be easier to rig up a pair of rings with something flexible than a highbar. In fact, that was one of the reasons why I thought of this ... a highbar flexes, but rings don't.

So on the rings, you'd just have to strap in a small strip of flexible bungy-like material ... right where the rings are strapped to the cables. I don't know exactly what material you'd use, but once you sourced that, the actual rigging should be fairly straight forward ... and easier than rigging up a flexible highbar.

The other advantage that it would give you ... obviously ... is that it would be a smoother swing ... simulating a real vault swing a little closer. It would also be a little easier on the shoulder, elbow, and wrist joints.

Beware of making it too soft of a flex. You should really have to swing hard to get just a little flex out of it ... like on a highbar! I think a 12" flex would be way too much.

I also refer you to the jungle highbar video clip hyperlinked by PP on the Highbars are Everywhere thread, where you can see a nice, flexible highbar ... http://polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=16608, so you can imagine how much fun it might be to swing on a really flexible bar (and see how they rigged it up between 2 trees)!

On that thread, I also mention this ...

If you have bleachers constructed with metal piping, look underneath them. You may find a crossbar with sufficient clearance to use for some highbar drills.

Even if there's no good cross-pieces there, look for a spot where you can put up your OWN crossbar (or ask your school coach to do so), across some supporting rigging. This crossbar might even be simply a piece of old broken pole!

Kirk

[Noah C]

Just an Idea that I have concocted over time....MAYBE you could drill holes in 6x6s or 4x4s whatever you use for your uprights in the high bar. then slide a small pole, lets say a 10' 110 or something through the holes and secure it some way. if the uprights were far enough apart and on the correct position of the pole maybe it would utilize the bend of the soft pole and make for a flexible high bar? I'm no expert..but I think its so crazy it just might work.

[Noah C]

ok after actually reading the OP...I see you have already thought of that. I just read the topic and skimmed the second post. lol. and I thought I had a good idea

[superpipe]

Just to confirm and correct some statements, official gymnastic high bars and rings both flex. Official high bars attach to the uprights with a special swivel that is meant to move. Official rings are connected to a spring swivel at the top where the cables connect to the frame support. I'm not a gymnast, but have looked into this equipment alot for vaulting workouts. The "springs" for both pieces of equipment are so gymnasts don't rip their arms apart when doing release moves for example. You can buy gynmastic rings without the spring swivel.

[vault3rb0y]

SO it sounds like the ideas are out there, but nothing has been really created with this purpose in mind, it just happened to flex a little. I like the idea of putting different poles into a contraption to allow you to swing on it. The only problem i see is that the weight of the vaulter plays a huge role in what pole to use, and you would need quite a few VERY stiff poles and VERY soft poles. Thanks for the ideas, It sounds easiest to attach extenders off of normal rings, with a coil spring on each extender. Just need to make sure the spring is the right stiffness for 150-180 Ib vaulters. I will continue to investigate .

[KirkB]

Noah, I don't think your EXACT idea has been thought of. You have a good idea in boring thru a 4x4 or 6x6, then inserting a PV pole into that. Because of the thickness of each hole, that would add to the rigidity of the bar (unlike the jungle bar).

To add to that idea, it might work out quite well if you bore several holes at several heights ... for various sized poles. Of course the lower heights would be for shorter/lighter vaulters ... (ALWAYS leave enough room for mats and for a LONG trail leg swing) ... and the hole size might have to be appropriate to fit the diameter of the pole for it. Or maybe just make all the holes big enough to fit the thickest pole ... and not worry about the added rigidity of the pole fitting tightly thru the holes?

It's POSSIBLE that you could use a GOOD pole for this purpose ... since it's just wood rubbing on it ... but I wouldn't do that until I experimented some on an old pole. An 8-foot section of a broken pole might be just about right.

The width of the bar between the posts should be no less than ~6 feet, I think. This width will affect the flex of the bar, and depending on how flexible you want it, an even wider width might be better.

Superpipe, I'm not aware of any spring swivel on the rings ... maybe that's been improved over the years? They were very unforgiving (rigid) in my day. Maybe WITH the spring swivels is for "practice", and WITHOUT the spring swivels is the official setup for competition?

3P0, the spring swivel idea sound good ... and maybe readily available. Interestingly, I think the physics of this might enable multiple spring swivels (whatever the heck they are or look like) to be attached in series, to increase the flex.

One added safety note ... if you're using a type of spring or elastic material that is not designed by a gymnastics equipement manufacturer, then I would be leary about whether or not it might break. In that case, it might be safer to have a piece of cable (or nylon rope) strapped across the flexible part of the apparatus, such that if the flexible part ever breaks or stretches beyond its elastic limit, the safety cable might save you from a serious fall.

Also a safety note on using PV poles for highbars ... which will become rather obvious as soon as you try this ... but just to be fore-warned (safety first!) ... be prepared to use tape and Stick'Em (or whatever adhesive your use when you PV) on the pole so that you have a safe grip on both hands. Unlike a normal highbar, the pole will slip rotationally, which might cause your grip to unravel.

Kirk

[vault3rb0y]

More good thoughts! I agree that the material needs to be made for some serious weight, and that safety precautions should be made. I usually do rings with a vault mat underneath me anyway. I am going to head to lowes to get some ideas and maybe a magazine with different flexed springs that are made for this sort of thing.

As far as the high bar, if i could add anything to the conversation i already started it would be to put towels in the holes where the pole slides in this "contraption". That would keep them pretty damn safe to swing on. You really have to be careful not to allow too much bend tho, because if you picture it in your mind (go ahead, close your eyes), the more angle between the pole and the hole you slide it in, the more the pole is going to slide THROUGH the hole, and at some angle (determined by the friction between the pole and towel), the energy from the pole will push the contraption to the side rather than pulling you back up. Does that make sense? Basically, there needs to be a way to keep the pole from bending too much, because the more you bend the pole, eventually it will feel even softer as it is pulled through the holes, because more pole= more distribution of energy= more bend= more pole.... never ending cycle till you hit the ground and it pops out! Something to think about. (btw im confused at how my knickname came back so quickly, lol)

[Noah C]

More good thoughts! I agree that the material needs to be made for some serious weight, and that safety precautions should be made. I usually do rings with a vault mat underneath me anyway. I am going to head to lowes to get some ideas and maybe a magazine with different flexed springs that are made for this sort of thing.

As far as the high bar, if i could add anything to the conversation i already started it would be to put towels in the holes where the pole slides in this "contraption". That would keep them pretty damn safe to swing on. You really have to be careful not to allow too much bend tho, because if you picture it in your mind (go ahead, close your eyes), the more angle between the pole and the hole you slide it in, the more the pole is going to slide THROUGH the hole, and at some angle (determined by the friction between the pole and towel), the energy from the pole will push the contraption to the side rather than pulling you back up. Does that make sense? Basically, there needs to be a way to keep the pole from bending too much, because the more you bend the pole, eventually it will feel even softer as it is pulled through the holes, because more pole= more distribution of energy= more bend= more pole.... never ending cycle till you hit the ground and it pops out! Something to think about. (btw im confused at how my knickname came back so quickly, lol)

I totally get the whole more pole more flex thing. Ok I haven't work with much fiberglass so I don't know how it acts when drilled or something of the sort, but maybe on either side of the uprights that the pole goes through you could drill through the pole and make a sort of cotter pin? Do you know what I'm saying? Do you have a trailer hitch? You put the ball and hitch into the receiver and slide the pin through the hole. Then use a cotter pin to secure the hitch pen so it doesn't slide out. Same thing on a bolt and nut on your hub in your car. Well you could use one like that to keep a controlled amount of pole inbetween the uprights even when flexed. Do you see what I'm saying? If not I will draw something and upload it.

[Noah C]

[vault3rb0y]

totally, thats a good idea. However you must leave some room for the pole to move through the hole, otherwise it wont bend! If it did, that would require the two supporting sides to come closer together. Lets work from best case scenario and see what we come up with from there. In order for the pole to bend true to the vault, the same length of pole (from top hand to box) must absorb the same energy. If you add length while bent, it would be like raising your hand mid-vault, in which case it would be softer. SO we MUST have attachments at both ends which will not move. The we can either HANG these attachments from the ceiling, so that as it bends it could react naturally.... Or if it were a contraption, it must allow the contraption to collapse in on itself as the pole bends. I will try to draw pictures, just for the fun of it, but i hope you can imagine it in your mind anyway!

[vault3rb0y]

check it out, then apply this to what a standing device would need. (ps how'd you get a picture to upload?)