I Need Input!

[jojovaulter]

So Im new at posting things - I hope it all works.

Im a college vaulter and have been vaulting for 9 years now, I weight 165 lbs. and am 5'10...my coaching has been limited so Ive got some bad habits.

But here's the thing - I feel like I am missing a part of the vault - a crucial part - that will allow me to hold higher on bigger poles. I may not be the fastest on the runway, but I can't seem to hold above 14'10 without not making it onto the pads.

One of those habits that I have is taking off under (sometimes as bad as 10'8). The problem is when I take off more "on" (12' or farther) the pole seems to sink and not penetrate instead of continuing up and into the pit.


here's a video of me vaulting

http://www.treemo.com/users/jojovaulter ... tem/660280

Please let me know what you think

[KirkB]

I feel like I am missing a part of the vault - a crucial part - that will allow me to hold higher on bigger poles.

Jojo, I was unable to convert your vid to QuickTime, so I couldn't look at it with stop action. If you re-publish it to YouTube or Fliggo (http://polevaultvideos.fliggo.com) I MIGHT be able to download and convert it.

But first off ... yes ... being under by 16" is certainly a bad habit that you need to break!

I think you have sufficient speed to grip higher and jump higher. No problems there ... that I can see.

You seem to press with your bottom arm on takeoff, then collapse it. Is that what you're doing? And is that your intent?

I don't know if it's worth it to list off your bad habits without looking frame-by-frame, but off the cuff, here's a few of them ...

1. Planting too slowly. So slow that you seem to be holding the pole up ... instead of letting it drop naturally (weightlessly). Suggestion: Delay your plant a smidgen, then make it more vigorous ... the final PUNCH UP should be more in time with your jump.
2. It looks like you MIGHT be pressing too much with your bottom arm on takeoff. (But I can't see this clearly.)
3. Your swing is fairly quick, but I think you pull in your trail leg before you pass the chord. That's too early ... there's no WHIP that way.
4. You ride the pole for too long in your "tuck". You should be passing THRU the tuck position ... without PAUSING. Or better yet, you should eliminate the tuck altogether (that's a longer story than will fit here).
5. You flag out way too much over the bar. If you had more horizontal momentum (by improving the bottom half of your vault), you'd shoot more up than out.
6. I hesitate to call you a classic tuck/shooter, but you have many of the same "symtoms" or "flaws" as them.

I can't see your takeoff without slo-mo or frame-by-frame. It might be fairly good. I dunno. What do YOU think? What's your takeoff intent, and what actually happens? Are you satisfied with your takeoff?

On the plus side ...

1. Your forwards lean during your run is fairly good.
2. Your body posture immediately after takeoff is fairly good (not perfect, but fairly good). Due partly to #1.
3. Your trail leg downswing is fairly quick.
4. You seem to land a safe distance into the PLZ.

The problem is when I take off more "on" (12' or farther) the pole seems to sink and not penetrate instead of continuing up and into the pit.

The SYMPTOM may very well be as you describe ... the pole's sinking. But is it possible that you're just putting so much more ENERGY into the pole when you hit your target takeoff that you CRUSH the pole?

And is it possible that you don't penetrate because you panic when you feel the pole sinking, so you don't complete your vault like you should? Do you actually bail on these attempts, or what happens? A vid would help.

Seriously, maybe you just need to move to a heavier pole when this happens?

Keep in mind that I'm trying to figure out your problem without much background or slo-mo vids. The more you describe your intent and how your vault FEELS, the easier it will be to understand what your TRYING to do, and where you're deviating from your intent.

Kirk

[jojovaulter]

hey KirkB, I never expected for anyone to reply so quickly - can't tell you how thankful I am.

here is the link for the video at fliggo: http://polevaultvideos.fliggo.com/video/xOaLUUox

I tried to attach the file since its a quicktime video already, don't know what happened though...

You seem to press with your bottom arm on takeoff, then collapse it. Is that what you're doing? And is that your intent?

This is one area where I am having trouble figuring out the correct vault. I was taught to press the pole strongly up, and so I would block out my bottom arm to keep the pole away from me. However, the only way to swing was to bend my bottom arm - which works great for hand holds around 14'6", no higher. I think my shoulders and arms should be more elastic, but I don't understand how to apply force to the pole to keep my body upright and get the pole bending.

Recently I have been studying some elite vaults and noticing (1) their bottom arm bends at takeoff and (2) their bottom arm straightens as they swing (pretty much the opposite of what I do). I may be mistaken, but when they swing and their bottom arm straightens it looks like there is a 2nd rolling bend in their poles that continues their progress forward towards the pit - I feel like this is what I am missing. Are they "rowing"? or is their swinging trail leg causing this? or is it something else?

Another reason I think I am missing this part (at least I think this is related) is because once I initially bend the pole at the plant, I don't really put any more force into the pole for the rest of the vault. In vaults when I try to swing hard or fast I end up throwing my head back and pulling my body towards my hands causing my legs to curl into a tuck - there is no swing or whip or pushing of the pole because I don't know how to initiate it and where or how to apply the force. And of course on these "tuck" vaults the pole always ends up unbending before I am inverted.

The weird thing is my best vaults (like the video) are when I am very relaxed and don't try to do anything. The problem with this strategy is I end up doing a slow partial tuck that is not explosive, and I use a very small amount of strength. This tells me that I am not using my full potential.

I can't see your takeoff without slo-mo or frame-by-frame. It might be fairly good. I dunno. What do YOU think? What's your takeoff intent, and what actually happens? Are you satisfied with your takeoff?

I am always trying to improve my takeoff - I try to raise up, and I try to think about "chasing the pole to vertical". And I think it works out ok though I want to jump up more at takeoff and have more leg separation so I can take off farther out (I would kill for a takeoff at 13') But I basically hit the positions that I would like, though as I said before my thought is my arms are not doing what they should be.

And is it possible that you don't penetrate because you panic when you feel the pole sinking, so you don't complete your vault like you should? Do you actually bail on these attempts, or what happens?

I unfortunately don't have video of this I'll do my best to describe it ... When the pole feels like it is sinking I end up bailing because it feels as though I won't make it on to the pit. After the initial takeoff, I am on the pole trying to push the pole beyond the pit but the pole looses all forward momentum as I near the box. Once I get to this point the pole straightens to either above the box or a little in front of it. If I tried to get upside down to finish the vault the way I normally do, by breaking my bottom arm, I don't think I would make it to the pad.

Seriously, maybe you just need to move to a heavier pole when this happens?

I never thought about this. I thought for the most part if a pole is too soft then I should land deep in the pit.

Whew. A lot of stuff, and I'm not used to describing pole vaulting in writing.

Any suggestions, corrections, critiques, etc will be very appreciated - I'm just trying to get better!

Thanks!

[altius]

"The problem is when I take off more "on" (12' or farther) the pole seems to sink and not penetrate instead of continuing up and into the pit."

This happens because your take off is too flat -you must increase the vertical component at take off - remember this is 'a jump with the pole' - in almost every language. except English. This also the most likely reason for your inability to grip higher.

However there are also major problems with your pole carry and plant - fact is if you can jump 16'6 like this you should be capable of jumping 18' if you sort those things out. Incidentally where are you based?

[jam354]

I don't know if this will help, but a while back when I jumped in college, I would take off severely under. I have a picture of a jump where the pole literally is almost bent 90 degrees before takeoff and I still made the bar. It completetely limited my potential. I knew it was a problem, but unfortunately I didn't know it was as big as a problem as I do now. (no PVP back then) I used to have the same feeling when I took off on because I was so used to taking off under that when I didn't feel the pole hit the back of the box, I wouldn't feel comfortable and my takeoff would be weak. Then it felt like by the time the pole was hitting the box, I was almost coming down and I would get that sinking feeling. The key is definately jumping up as Altius already stated. I'm not sure if this is considered a good idea, but I used to lay a towel down at my takeoff mark. I didn't look at it, but peripherally it gave me a target to jump from rather than waiting to feel the tip hit the box. It then became a Long jump with a pole. Hope that helps a little. Let the experts chime in on that drill and listen to them.

[superpipe]

I 100% agree with Altius about you not jumping at take-off. It also looks to me that your hips ( Center Of Mass ) are too low when you run. Get your knees up. You need to run with a tall and erect posture with the knees up. Your thigh should be parallel to the ground in mid stride just like a sprinter. Staying tall and erect will enable you to jump at take-off with minimal ground contact time. Think "Get off the ground as fast as you can" at take-off.

[jojovaulter]

This happens because your take off is too flat -you must increase the vertical component at take off - remember this is 'a jump with the pole' - in almost every language. except English. This also the most likely reason for your inability to grip higher.

Altius, It is difficult for me to collect and jump up at the end of my run while planting the pole - It feels like I don't have enough ground contact and am not in the correct body position to push off the ground well with my left leg. Also I feel like I am not getting any help from my arms to jump (should I be?) You say that my pole carry and plant have problems, could these things be related to not jumping up? Could you suggest ways to improve these things? 18 feet sure would be something oh, and I'm in northern California

Jam 354, Glad to know I'm not alone. I used to put a towel on the runway but haven't in a long time. Thanks for reminding me about this one. As I said to altius, I can't seem to get the jump right and often end up slowing down quite a bit if I try to jump up...maybe its timing with the pole drop? maybe positioning? any thoughts?

Superpipe, I will definitely concentrate on my hips being high. In the past I have noticed that when I start lowering the pole my hips drop. Its funny that you say I should get off the ground as fast as I can - it actually makes a lot of sense, but the feeling I have when vaulting is that my takeoff leg doesn't have enough ground contact to give a strong push off. I hope fixing my hip positioning will help this. do you have any other thoughts on why I feel out of position (my legs and arms) to get a good long jump?

I really want to thank all of you - this is the most input I have ever gotten and am taking all of it to heart. I'm excited!

[jojovaulter]

oh, and I wanted to say, Im sure a lot of great, similar input has been discussed before so feel free to direct me to other discussions, I'm just new to this and there are a lot of discussions, so I don't know where to look!

[KirkB]

oh, and I wanted to say, Im sure a lot of great, similar input has been discussed before so feel free to direct me to other discussions, I'm just new to this and there are a lot of discussions, so I don't know where to look!

Jojo, please search for "kirk feofanova" for now (The "Is Pushing With the Bottom Arm Good or Bad?" thread).

I'll reply soon to your other comments ... maybe tomorrow night.

Kirk

[KirkB]

Joey, I tried 2 different downloaders and they both failed. Moyea doesn't say why it failed, and CucuSoft just doesn't support the fliggo website.

If you can re-publish on YouTube, that one will work for sure. Sorry to put you to this extra bother, but it's the only way I can check out your vaults frame-by-frame.

Kirk

[TylerPorter11]

What's the program you use to slow it down frame-by-frame?

[altius]

Nothing a few thousand planting drills from walking to sprinting (along with a few thousand more take offs into a sand pit) wont cure.