No Coach at National Prelims...

[joebro391]

With a 14'7" 155 you would have cleared 14 and with a 160 you could have cleared 14 6/15- even tho you were taking off under. Agree with PP -come to the Maryland clinic.

hey Alan, i'll be honest, you were the greatest coach i've ever worked with. I was at the iPolevault camp, in Tuckerton, New Jersey. You probably don't remember, but if you do, now you know. Um, i kinda had a "falling-out" with that coach, even though i still think of him, as a brother, so i don't think i'll be at that camp, this year. However, maybe i'll journey out, to maryland, and work with you there. Where and when will it be?? is there a website??

[KirkB]

6P, why were you flagging out? Why?

It's actually quite obvious and simple. There's nothing complicated here.

Once you figure out WHY you flagged out, then you can fix it!

It's actually a very, very easy fix! You don't even have to practice anything on the highbar!

Kirk

[joebro391]

Kirk, was it simply because I was letting my bottom arm collapse, and it was causing me to get swept under the pole??? and in turn, i wasn't able to come back, enough????...

[KirkB]

No, 6P, that's not it.

When you're running as fast as you're to be running for the day, and when you're jumping as hard as you're going to be jumping, and if your technique isn't going to substantially improve during the meet, there's only 2 variables remaining to adjust.

One of those variables is the pole flex, and apparently you were stuck there too, so that leaves only one variable remaining.

Had you adjusted this variable, you would not have flagged out!

I see that you've posted a new vid today, but I'm traveling this weekend, so I don't have time to review it. I see in your new comments that you haven't yet figured out what I'm talking about. We need to fix this ... or at least straighten out your misunderstanding about it!

I'm concerned that you're starting to go down the path of focussing on what your bottom arm is doing ... and using it to apply some pressure. While I appreciate that you absolutely know that you should not block out (your tagline declares this!), I suspect that you're already "doing too much" with your bottom arm. Done right, you really shouldn't even have to worry about the bottom arm, because the pole will bend from the pressure of the top arm only. You've read all the threads, so you know this.

I strongly recommend that you NOT go down the path of "stiffening up" your bottom arm. That's NOT where your problem lies. If you feel that you're getting "fiber-faced", there's other ways to fix that. And in fact, the collapse of the bottom arm really isn't a bad thing. It's your BODY POSTURE on takeoff that's important. You just have to trust that ... if done properly ... the pole WILL BEND ... out of the way of your face!

Kirk

[joebro391]

the only thing i can think of now, is my step. was it where i was taking off, that caused me to flag out??

And i've been thinking about this whole "bottom-arm thing". It's not that i'm applying pressure, outward (blocking), i'm applying pressure UPWARD. Remember, as Bill Hartley always told me, this is a pushing sport, not a pulling sport. By Applying pressure, upward, the vaulter can rise WITH the pole, and achieve a higher bend. When the bottom arm collapses, the vaulter is sucked under the pole. By staying away from the pole, the vaulter can achieve a better C-position and whip/swing, much better and add more energy to the pole. or at least, that's the theory. I'd just like to be sure. I've been thinking about this, ever since I saw that video of Petrov, giving the speech, in Reno, when he talked about how the angle of the pole is better, when the bottom arm is higher: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7732&hl=en

It's at 23:15. watch from then, on. (well, watch the whole thing, haha, but for the purpose of my comment, from 23:15-on)

[KirkB]

the only thing i can think of now, is my step. was it where i was taking off, that caused me to flag out??

Nope, that's not it either. I'm just going to tell you, so that we can close off this thread. Then I'll move onto your new one to talk about the bottom arm ...

6P, I'm really surprised you didn't figure this out on your own. I understand better now why you needed a coach at Nationals.

The answer is that if you're flagging out, that means that you're shooting your body TOWARDS the bar, rather than ABOVE the bar. But why? Why can't you shoot STRAIGHT UPWARDS, and just let your forwards momentum carry you over the bar? This is what should happen, but it didn't on that day. I haven't looked at your new vids yet, so I'm only talking about your Nationals jumps here.

You're not shooting straight up because you didn't have the MOMENTUM to do so. If you HAD shot straight up, you probably would have fallen on the bar, or worse yet, stalled out. You simply didn't have the MOMENTUM (energy) to carry you straight up and over the bar.

Whether you intended to or not (probably not), your body's natural reaction to not having sufficient energy to shoot STRAIGHT UP and over the bar is to flag out. Think of it in terms of your maximum CoM at the peak of your vault. For the energy you put into the pole and got out of the pole, you reached a certain max CoM. This CoM peaked roughly over the bar. Had you shot STRAIGHT UP (which should have been your intention), then with your speed and technique that day, you still would have hit the same peak CoM. That's physics. You can't increase it unless you improve your speed or technique. But don't expect any sudden improvements in technique on your 3rd attempt at 14-0! It just doesn't usually happen that way, unless you can pinpoint a particular technical flaw and SUDDENLY fix it. The odds of this are low.

So, how to fix this for your 2nd or 3rd attempt at 14-0 that day? Simple. Just lower your grip. It's your only option left. Had you lowered your grip by perhaps a fist or so (4"), you might have been able to roll the pole to vertical a little better, swing a little faster, get a little more inverted, and shoot a little more STRAIGHT UP.

Then (not during the meet, but in your next practice), you could (a) ensure that your technique in the bottom half of your vault is correct with the low grip; (b) make sure the top half of your vault is OK, and you're shooting STRAIGHT UP (or close to it); and (c) THEN and only THEN move your grip back up. As soon as you start flagging out again, you need to lower the grip again, and improve your technique. There's only one other alternative to this ... to get on a softer pole, keeping your same grip.

Let's keep this thread going to discuss the lowering of the grip (and perhaps the pole flex). I'll now take a look at your new thread re bottom arm pressure.

Kirk

[KirkB]

6P, I noticed that PP recommended you increase your grip from 13-3 to 13-5 (or so), and I noticed that Altius said that you'd have gone higher if you were on a 14-7 155 or 160 (instead of the 14-7 150).

I'm confused at that advice, as that's not how I see it.

The only thing I can think of is that I've downloaded the Nationals vids, converted them to QuickTime, and analyzed them frame-by-frame. Perhaps PP and Altius didn't do this, so perhaps their comments weren't as deeply researched as mine? I don't know.

PP or Altius: I'm happy to change my mind if I can understand the rationale behind increasing the pole stiffness or grip, but it's just rather strange that it's the exact opposite of my advice.

Kirk

[powerplant42]

6P seemed to REALLY be blowing through on most of those jumps. I might have suggested the same thing as altius if I had looked at the video more closely, I'm not sure. I guess it also depends on his mental state that day? But a better, frame by frame look would've really helped out a lot.

Where did you get this download thing that you're using so much now? Is it free?

[KirkB]

Where did you get this download thing that you're using so much now? Is it free?

Yeh, it's free.

If you've ever noticed, QT is the only format that lets you use the back/forward arrow keys to step thru a frame at a time. So you need a FLV to MOV converter, since YouTube uses the FLV (Flash Video format), and QT uses the MOV (MOVie format). There's several free converters available to do this. I use Moyea, but there's also one that runs on FireFox called YouTube Mate. I mentioned them on my March 13 and March 15 posts here: http://polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=13934.

BTW, I can see why you and Altius recommended higher grip and/or heavier pole. When I advised 6P to lower his grip, I'm only talking about TEMPORARILY, until his swing and inversion gets better ... which won't happen anytime soon if he's always under. THEN, once his CONFIDENCE is better (that he'll swing/invert properly without panicking ... which is counter-productive when he pulls his trail leg in too soon), by all means, move on up in grip and poles ... SLOWLY and PROGRESSIVELY.

Kirk