petrov vs. self made

[mcobb1013]

i have read just about very link on this website about the petrov model. i do not agrue that bubka was a master at this and he was the best pole vaulter ever (numbers don't lie). but almost all the links on technique here say that you have to develop your style around you. those two statements seem contradictory to me. i mean bubka was 10 times stronger then the average pole vaulter and generated massive amounts of energy from his pure strength and flawless technique. but it seems to me that if you mess up the petrov model in one way the whole jump becomes flawed and the only way to perfect this intricate model is by having your whole life devoted to a training routine which only an olympic athelete could do. i know that the petrov is the best way to transfer energy, but wouldn't it make sense for the average vaulter who does not have perfect technique and does not have insane strength to generate engery other ways through his vault? (ex. laying back on the pole more to generate bend) also wouldn't this hide technical mistakes you make. i mean bubka even admitted that straight pole jumps show mistakes more than bending jumps, so would the same hold true about slightly bent compared to heavily bent jumps? im not talking about putting all of your energy into the bend but it seems to me my best jumps come when i feel like the pole is about to snap and not when i try to follow the petrov model which generates less bend from what i've seen

i do not expect to convert anyone to my views but i was just wondering if anyone else had noticed this or if i am just completely insane
please help me clear my head about this issue

[KirkB]

... it seems to me that if you mess up the petrov model in one way the whole jump becomes flawed and the only way to perfect this intricate model is by having your whole life devoted to a training routine which only an olympic athelete could do.

I think your "whole life" statement is an exageration. I think it's easier for beginners and intermediates as well as elites to use the Petrov model. The reason, I think, is that a long, swinging action (little or no muscling) is easier to do than rocking back and tucking by brute strength. For beginners especially, they don't have the strength to "muscle up", so a natural swing should be easier.

This point should be quite clear to anyone doing a kip versus a muscle-up on the highbar. The kip is so much easier and efficient - once you learn how - than the muscle up. Really, that's the diff between Petrov and tuck/shoot. The trick, of course (kip or vault) is to learn the "proper technique" so that it IS easier.

... (laying back on the pole more to generate bend) also wouldn't this hide technical mistakes you make.

Not sure what you mean by "laying back" or "hide ... mistakes" here. Please explain.

i'm not talking about putting all of your energy into the bend but it seems to me my best jumps come when i feel like the pole is about to snap and not when i try to follow the petrov model which generates less bend from what i've seen

Two things to note here ...

1. "putting all of your energy into the bend" is GOOD, but unfortunately I think you're referring to transferring this energy thru the BOTTOM arm. Done properly, the more you transfer this energy into the pole thru the TOP arm (just by hanging on!), the better off you'll be.

2. There is a limit to the amount of bend that's efficient. (I learned this the hard way.) If you bend it to nearly its elastic limit (ready to snap), then the entire vault goes into too much of a slo-mo sequence. It's more efficient to follow the CONTINUOUS CHAIN - always forwards and upwards, QUICKLY. Petrov refers to this overbend issue as "crushing the pole". You can search PVP for the keyword "crushing" and you'll find some other threads where I've talked about this.

i do not expect to convert anyone to my views but i was just wondering if anyone else had noticed this or if i am just completely insane ...

Nah, I think you're just completely insane!

Joking!

One piece of advice I will give you is to read the threads with an OPEN mind. Everyone (myself included) has preconceived ideas when they read this technical stuff, and they narrow their opportunity to learn something new by this "mental blindness". If you're able to do this (it does take some self-discipline), you will find that you will understand better what the authors are saying. THEN, you can think about how their thoughts apply to your preconceived thoughts. Otherwise, you may miss some important points.

Kirk

[powerplant42]

Please recongnize that Bubka was not the most athletic vaulter ever (or even of his time)!

Please also recognize that there is a difference between a technical model (Petrov, tuck and shoot, etc.) and a style. A style is a set of flaws inside of a technical model. Nobody will ever perfect any technical model, and weaknesses will differ from athlete to athlete (in varying degrees)...

The Petrov model takes the best advantage of the biomechanical principles of the vault... That means that it is the easiest to perform in terms of strength.

If you think about it, it should take just as much time to reach the same level of maximization of the advantages of the Petrov model as of any technical model...

[baggettpv]

Good job guys. Another one bites the dust!

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC