VaultMarq26 wrote: ... if you are not acively straightening your arm, you are telling me that the pole is pulling your arm straight ...
Yes, the pole is pulling your arm straight. If you just look at video (of say Bubka or Isi), it may LOOK like they're applying pressure with their bottom arm, but that's definitely not the case.
VaultMarq26 wrote: ... i may be missing something here, but your bottom arm must be somewhat active to complete a vault right?
No, your bottom arm does NOT need to be "somewhat active" to complete a vault. This is a common misconception. The truth is, all you need to do is hang on tightly with the top hand, and your momentum from the run and takeoff will bend the pole in the arc between the grip and the pole butt. Any pressure applied with the bottom hand (either pushing or pulling) will alter the natural arch that forms between the top hand and the butt (bad).
VaultMarq26 wrote: ...I was reading your post on the article about the continuous chain model, and I realized that I am arguing for a better redistribution of the vaulters energy by proper placement of his bottom arm. "From an energy point of view, the arms' vertical movement, relative to the vaulter's body, should continue through takeoff and end after the vaulter is off the ground"...
Correct. You are quoting from the PLANT INPUT section here:
http://polevaultpower.com/forum/search.php?t=16118In a nutshell that section states that by forcefully thrusting both arms and the pole upwards at the end of the plant, you will add 15-20kg of additional momentum into your jump. Think about how you might jump up to touch a basketball rim. You THRUST your arm up in unison to jumping, which gives you added lift. (In other threads, I've also referred to THRUSTING as PRESSING - to differentiate it from PUSHING.) That's exactly what Roman is advocating in this section, and it makes perfect sense (and is how I did it - I learned this by my basketball training throughout HS).
VaultMarq26 wrote:... in the video the vaulter takes off the ground and the bottom arm has a NEGATIVE vertical movement relative to the vaulters body.......this is causing a loss of energy/poor distribution of the energy that is present ...
OK, I see what you're saying. In this vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1UFOINX8-g&feature=channel_page, Sooch's bottom arm appears to drop DOWN (negative vertical movement). This part is true. However, I'm not convinced that "... this is causing a loss of energy/poor distribution of the energy that is present ...". Instead, I think the dropping down of his bottom hand is just a consequence of him not executing the Petrov model "properly" here.
To execute it properly, he should reach his top arm up, stretching it as high as possible (in a vigourous THRUSTING action, along with the the bottom arm, as advocated by Roman in his PLANT INPUT section). But remember that once the pole hits the box, the plant action is COMPLETE, and there should be no more pressure applied by the bottom arm in ANY direction, else it will adversely affect the energy distribution of the bending pole (bad).
The precise explanation of this vault part is a little controversial between myself and Roman, as he advocates a "lat pull" here, whereas I advocate absolutely no pull or push in ANY direction. I take the position (correctly, IMHO) that Roman's "lat pull" is a very advanced technique that only a super-human
(that can do a shoot-to-a-handstand from a standing start under a highbar) can execute. This very rare person has the athleticism to break the mWR. For the rest of us mere mortals (~99.99% of all vaulters), the "lat pull" won't work.
To be fair, Roman (Agapit) has been off the PVP board since about July 2008, so we have not resolved our differences on this matter. Also, there is at least one vaulter on this forum that has apparently performed the lat pull with success. According to him (I forget his name), calling it a "lat pull" is an oversimplification of the muscle actions involved. But this is very advanced stuff IMHO, and does not apply to us mere mortals. I mention this only to be fair - in the interest of full disclosure.
VaultMarq26 wrote: SO.....that is where my confusion came from, and to answer the question of the post, actively pushing with the bottom arm after the take-off is not necessary ...
Yes. So that would be a vote for #1, right?
VaultMarq26 wrote:... but isometric muscle activation in that arm to stop any negative motion is important.
Hmm ... So that would be a vote for #2?
On the one hand, you're saying no active blocking, but on the other hand, your saying "stop any negative motion". Isn't that just another form of blocking?
Your quandry seems to be that SOMETHING has to stop that negative motion, so it must be the bottom arm that does it. This is where I think you're not realizing that the pole will bend on its own WITHOUT any "isometric muscle activation".
To say this another way, the focus should not be on what the bottom arm does or does not do. Instead, the focus should be on what the top arm/hand does. You will find - thru self-discovery - that the bend of the pole due to pressure from the TOP HAND ONLY is more efficient than by pressure from both hands. That's the Petrov way! That's what Bubka, Isi, and many others do! That's what I did too - which is why I'm confident that this technqiue REALLY WORKS ... even tho it sounds counter-intuitive until you actually experience it!
Kirk
